Mindful Chat with Veronica Max Founder of Ultrapersonal Healthcare American Academy of Nurse Entrepreneurs

Subscriber-only episode

Veronica sees her role as a guide and advocate, listening attentively to her patient's health concerns and conveying information in a clear, approachable manner. She values preventive medicine and thrives on finding the root cause of her patient’s problems. She has experience in treating all ages and stages of life and is especially interested in treating autoimmune conditions, as well as providing prenatal and postnatal care and counseling patients in health optimization. She stays fit and active with Crossfit and chasing after her 3 children–Bishop, Vaughn, and Deacon with her husband Tucker.

Veronica received her bachelor’s and master's of science in nursing from Texas Tech University. She also holds a bachelor’s in biochemistry from Samford University, where she played Division I basketball. She is certified in family medicine through the American Academy of Nurse Practitioners. Veronica was recently awarded the 2019 Austin Advanced Practice Nurse Excellence Award.

UltraPersonal Healthcare
 512-489-9813
 4107 Medical Parkway, Suite 208, Austin, TX, 78756

 https://ultrapersonal.healthcare/
 https://www.facebook.com/ultrapersonal.healthcare/
 https://www.yelp.com/biz/ultrapersonal-healthcare-austin


https://ultrapersonal.healthcare/



Dr. Damaris G. is an Integrative Doctor of Nurse Practice Family Nurse Practioner Mom, Veteran,. BC Family Nurse Practioner & Holistic Integrative health, Studies Functional Medicine
Social Media🔗

Collab/Interview/Say Hi/Email Me at info@damarismaria.com
Linked In- https://www.linkedin.com/in/damarisdnp/​

Website- https://damarismaria.com/​

Founder- Mindful Integrative Healthcare
https://mindfulcomforts.com/​

Office Text/Call-732-355-3469

Join our Facebook group Mindfullly Integrative Wellness Warriors- https://www.facebook.com/groups/301997383826243

Mindfully Integrative Merch
http://tee.pub/lic/JAsiMkghrBg

Are you feeling stressed, tired, or Metabolism imbalanced?
Take advantage of our free mindful steps to help improve your well-being.
Schedule an appointment today.

Ask Us for help with Medical Weight Loss & Improve Metabolic Health
Www.mindfullyintegrative.com

Let's Work on Your Optimal Wellness Journey!
Sign Up For Discovery Call
://calendly.com/drdamarisg/30min

Enjoy the Show and Get Bonus Episodes
Subscribe For Just $4 a month

Enjoy one of Our Mindful Book Collections HERE


Check Out our YouTube Channel

Join Our Mindfully Integrative Private Facebook Community

Get 15% off Pharmaceutical Grade Full Script Vitamins & Supplements

Transcript

Damaris Grossmann: 0:53

hi, how are you? This is Damaris Maria Grossman, integrative family nurse practitioner. And this is mindfully integrative show. And today we have an amazing guest, one of a great colleague, mentor friend. She is an expert in family nurse practitioner, telehealth, and she has her own practice. And she's also an amazing integrative health provider. And she has a wonderful story, so I can't wait for you to meet her for Veronica Pike Max. And she has a beautiful family. So Veronica, thank you and welcome to the show.

Veronica Leigh Max: 1:25

Thank you, Damaris. It's funny you're the only person I think that's ever gotten my name right and that's on my that's my kind of my fault because I've made it really confusing. Like I've been married for eight years but I just now change change my last name to max recently and then my Facebook has always said like, for a long time, it just said Veronica Lee which is my middle name so kudos to you for you really did your research to

Damaris Grossmann: 1:53

me I feel like I followed and worked with you for a while so I feel like no Peck is your original name right or made any

Veronica Leigh Max: 1:59

eye because my maiden name Max is my married name and Lee as you know, as my middle name. Like when I was working in the hospital a long time ago. I just like dropped my last name on Facebook and put Li You know, cuz I Cool. Cool. Yeah,

Damaris Grossmann: 2:13

I go de Maris Maria. Yeah, I changed mine too. Because it's like, after a

Veronica Leigh Max: 2:17

while, peep everybody's confused, but it's my own fault. And I still like professionally. I haven't changed my name on my license yet. So I have to do that soon. But anyway,

Damaris Grossmann: 2:26

yeah. So what is a fun fact about you that people might not know about you? Obviously your name? That's why

Veronica Leigh Max: 2:33

there we go with that. I don't know. I played division one. basketball. So very athletic might be something. Yeah, so I was I was an athlete for, for all my life actually competed after basketball was, you know, kind of lost and didn't know where to put my energy. So I started doing CrossFit and competed, you know, regionals, and CrossFit, you know, a few years ago, so

Damaris Grossmann: 3:02

if that's been your thing? That's cool. Yeah. I

Veronica Leigh Max: 3:04

mean, I actually, you know, that's, again, we can kind of get into this, but part of my purse, I was doing a lot of compensation for some things that I've that we're missing internally with, you know, external, you know, winning competitions and sports and athletics and academics and achieving and achievements exactly right. And keeping busy and pushing myself with all those things. So, so it's funny, so yeah, there's, you know, pictures on the internet me like, you know, I was about 25 pounds of muscle heavier than I am now. So pretty, pretty ripped. Glad. I have not, I still I still have a membership to CrossFit gym that my friend owns, you know, but I just show up. And, you know, I'm just for me, it's a when to show up to the gym these days. You know, I do love being active and working out. I mean, that's always been part of my life. And I think that's important. But I just don't have the, you know, the desire to use to it was a drive for competition, you know, for for, you know, finishing the workout first or, you know, Oh, God, yeah. Even when I was pregnant, you know, like, I wanted to beat everybody else in the gym, right? Even the men, right. So and then I did on most days, but, you know, I don't have there's, you know, that's that external motivation. I don't need that anymore. And so, yeah, my interests have just changed a bit. What

Damaris Grossmann: 4:31

was that must have been quite challenging, being pregnant, being able to still show up everybody.

Veronica Leigh Max: 4:36

Hey, I mean, at that point in time, I was, you know, like I said, I was just a six foot kind of lean, but muscular, and, you know, it's just kind of what I had always done, you know, pushing myself and kind of ignoring, you know, I was a bit disconnected from, from my body. And so, you know, that's an advantage. Right? If, if you're an athlete, which I was, but that's a disadvantage as far as you know, you know, Lady in a happy, healthy life.

Damaris Grossmann: 5:09

How do you like how do you what do you mean by that? Like, being that Yeah, I can tell you, you know, obviously, you are well rounded overall, I mean, obviously, we all have stories and things that have gone on in life to try to transition you to be more athletic. So you're saying that one aspect, your physical body, we're doing well, but your your emotional, your mental health and your overall healthy, we're working?

Veronica Leigh Max: 5:31

Well, so you know, that's, and that's the funny that's the funny thing, right? Like I if you'd asked me a few years ago, you know, if I was happy, healthy, and I've always been, you know, I've been fortunate enough. You know, I've been and not just fortunate I hate saying that because I think that precludes the The effort that I put into, you know, I, am I careful, you know, I pay attention to what I eat, right, I make sure that I move my body, you know, I'm conscious of all of these things, right? Because good health doesn't just happen on accident, right? A lot of people like to say, Oh, you just have good genes. And now Sure, genetics. Genetics is part of it. Right. But it's not, it's not the full picture. In fact, I think, you know, what, what we're learning and what will, you know, kind of be shown in the future is that really, genetics is a smaller, much smaller part of it than we then we think, you know, because we're learning all about epigenetics, you know, turning on and off gene expression with our environment and lifestyle. So, so anyways, you know, I think, you know, consciously I thought that I was, you know, I felt good consciously. But really, you know, when I started, I got to a point where, you know, very low point, and I had, you know, I had all of the achievements, that, that I thought I needed to really be happy, because the really, the thing that was, I guess, that was consistent that I was aware of in my life is that I always felt that I was working, working, working, working, you know, this started from a very early age, you know, probably high school, or maybe no, middle school is what I remember, really use this particular pattern. But like, for instance, I've worked my ass off, you know, practicing and training for basketball and track in the gym. You know, because the goal was right to get an athletic scholarship. And really, my, my reason for getting an athletic scholarship because I was worried you know, growing up, there was always a lot of tension in my household about finances right? And so I was like, Well, I'm not gonna cause extra attention. I'm so I want to get a scholarship. And I was good at athletics. So athletic scholarship. And so it was just work, work, work, work, work. So I get athletic scholarship, and then I achieve that, right. And it's work, work, work, work work, so that I can, you know, do well in college, and, you know, and then it's the next thing so it's, it was this illusion, right, that I'd, okay, I'm not going to live now I'm going to work my ass off now. Because for something in the future, yeah. But that's an illusion, you're never all you all we have is the present and sprite on showing it, you'll, you'll get through the end of your life. And, you know, chasing that carrot that you never arrived at, right? So that was the thing I was aware of that I noticed that pattern repeating itself. And so and, you know, obviously having businesses you know, that was another Work, work, work, work work to get it to a certain point and, and then having, but that's a stressor, too, that's, that's, you know, I put a lot you know, there were weeks, I was working, you know, 100 hours or so because I had problems delegating and, and with my first business, you know, made mistakes like that just work better. As a result, I always say there's no business mistakes, or business problems, they're all emotional problems that just manifest in different areas of your life, including business, including your personal relationships, your professional relationships, etc. And, you know, becoming a mother, that's another stressor, too, you know, I became a mother when my first business was, you know, really taking off and became a mother at the same time. You're a mom of three. Yeah, exactly. You have multiple businesses. Yeah. So and you know, and I remember like when I was pregnant, so kind of the for me the real like, low point was I was pregnant with my third my second child and and and I remember basically I had her when it's a labor like two and a half weeks early my water kind of had premature rupture of membranes I have with all of my kids for whatever reason, but I've been able to have homebirths is able to get get labor going. But with my with my second she, you know, she came two and a half weeks early, and I like, I don't think I was connected. Like my entire, like, I if you would have asked me if I was pregnant. I like I had no idea that I was that I was pregnant, you know, like, I was so busy working, I was not connected with myself, and therefore you know, wasn't connected with her and then I just like Whoa, I remember like, I'm going and I'm having a baby like I wouldn't like whoa, where'd the last nine months go you know? Um, and so you know, all of those things, you know, which always felt for me inside I felt conflicted you know, as there's always this pool like between myself and between, you know, my businesses and being a mom and I just I've always felt conflicted and pulled apart. So that was the the thing if you'd ask me, you know, but, but otherwise, you know, I've never presented as I've never, you know, never had depression or anxiety. I've never, you know, or any of those things. I would have never told you that but really the thing was, I was disassociating from all of my feelings my not only my body, but my feelings, you know, want to feel you didn't really want to have that feeling? Well, exactly. It wasn't, it wasn't even a conscious, I didn't want to have mean it was because this, you know, because of traumas in my life. You know, very early, I learned to you know, one of the things that my dad taught me very young was that, you know, crying, we don't cry, you know, showing showing crying is showing weakness, and we don't do that. And that's just one example of, you know, because people think that trauma, right is, oh, yeah, I saw someone gets shot, or, you know, or I was raped or something like that. And those are what I consider big t traumas or fake trauma, there's

Damaris Grossmann: 11:41

a lot that affect you.

Veronica Leigh Max: 11:44

Yeah, there's, yeah, I mean, there's relational trauma, which is simply like in that instance, you know, my father not being able to just because he wasn't able to connect with that. And you know, though, that those emotions felt threatening to him, because he didn't have that support growing up, like not having a, an adult container to feel those things. And in fact, being told that I can't feel those things that that would be so hard, rejected. I mean, you know, so many people go through this, right, but just things like that, right, that I learned to, you know, to stuff, my feelings. And the thing about that is, when you don't feel your feelings, they don't go away. Now, you know, that you carry them, we store them in our body, there's a lot of great books about this, you know, the somatic energy or Exactly. Somatic Experiencing as a type of talk therapy or talk therapy. I'm a huge fan of. But, but yeah, we store that stuff, right. That's what we're learning. And that's kind of and that's how so like, as I've been doing this work, right over the past, you know, I've been doing self works since 2013. But really, over the past two years is I mean, I got a new therapist, that's just exceptional, right? And found some other healers that have really, you know, helped me take things to another level, because I write exactly, I'd kind of only skimmed the surface in the past. And, you know, because most there's a lot of therapists out there, most therapists are not good. No, no,

Damaris Grossmann: 13:21

no. So I had to do about 10 to 12 years for myself, I would say, okay, so I and then I mean, that like, like all anything from acupuncture, yoga therapy, you know, like, physical work, you know, lots of different modalities. There's a lot of different parts of the equation. And that's why I like I think I came into this, like, passion, Integrative Health path project, because I was just like, people don't get it. It's so more complicated than a pill. Correct. You know, I mean, that going through this right now, and, and I, I admire you for talking about it, because I know that you're such a strong woman, and you're and you're one and you're doing wonderful work, and then to be able to be playful, you know, talking about your vulnerabilities right now. That's, that's a lot. And, and I'm glad that you're feeling you know, you're going through the healing process, you know,

Veronica Leigh Max: 14:07

yeah, no, I mean, that's, you know, I really believe that it's important that we share, because that's, you know, everything that's going on in the world right now, you know, you know, everybody's there's a lot of different perspectives on that, right. And if you if you follow me on social media, you probably know my perspective on it. And I think, really, it's just a symptom of a lot of traumatized, traumatized society. That, that is projecting out into the world, rather than looking at their own shadows, you know, and so, I really do believe that the way, you know, the way that we chat, and I don't like what's going on in the world right now. But, but I can't change that what I can control and work on is myself. And by working on myself, I'm able to show up differently. And that and, and people see that right, and they and so I'm able to share and share through sharing my journey. You know, that's how people people relate through story that people learn through time to worry

Damaris Grossmann: 15:22

that that's going away. This passion project came out. Yeah, I just my story was so hard and it was enough. And as I talked to you about your thing, and I didn't know you're going through a lot and like I said 1012 years, but I work on it every single day.

Veronica Leigh Max: 15:36

Yeah, no, I mean, I don't think I don't think I don't think there's an end to a feeling journey. Right. I i

Damaris Grossmann: 15:43

when you're growing. You're good?

Veronica Leigh Max: 15:45

No, absolutely. And I have like the person that I was two years ago is almost, you know, I'm not a different person, but I'm a more whole person. And I'm, I'm now connected where I was at, whereas I was disconnected before, I'm now connected to my, you know, whether you want to call it your true self, or your higher self or your God self beautiful, you know, and so, you know, people, people are able to see that, and that's how we change the world through through our own work and being able to, you know, integrate our shadow and look at ourselves, like, oh, when I'm mad at someone else, or someone else is annoying me or whatever. It's because they're, I'm seeing something in them. That is, that is reminding me of something I don't like about me, you know? So. So, yeah, so I think, you know, I think that's why this work is so important. And also as as, as, as far as it's related to, you know, the business and the work that we do in the world. You know, what I've seen is that there's always, you know, kind of, like I was talking about with my, with my pregnancy. So I'm, as I shared with you, I'm, I'm about three months pregnant right now. And my first trimester had been really, it's been really tough, a lot of not just fatigue, but also a lot of like, physical discomfort. And, you know, part of that is because I've been processing a lot of grief about my relationship with my mother, you know, letting go of the fact that, you know, she was not the mother there that I needed. As as a child. Right. And, and she may never, you know, be that, and it's grieving that, you know, that mother that I Mother, you want it neat. Yeah, needed want, but didn't have. And, and that's man, that is. That is deep, deep pain. You know, I never understood I told him, I remember telling my therapist once, like, I don't really know that. I mean, yeah, I'm sad. I don't know. I'm not sure. You know, I've heard the word grief, but I'm not really I don't really, I'm sure. I'm not sure I understand the difference, you know, what's the difference between grief and sadness? You know, and I just had not at that point in time developed, you know, I was just getting into exploring my emotions, because I'd shut those down for the majority of my life. But now, I mean, I truly understand what grief is, you know, it's a whole different level of, you know, and to me, I described I mean, it really feels like physical pain. It's a very deep, deep wounding. So, so yeah, so I think you know, so where I was going with that, you know, that was manifesting physically, like, I would actually like grief. Now, if you read some, I've got a big old books. I forgot to mention over here. I think it is.

Damaris Grossmann: 18:45

Well, let me grab it. Oh, sure. No worries. Yeah, the grief is a big factor in life in general. What is this? What is this must be a yoga back now. It's a great book. All right. So I love this book. Hey, let's see Oh, wow, the textbook psychology meaning What's it called? messages

Veronica Leigh Max: 19:05

messages from the body? So it's really cool. Yeah, so yeah, so like grief. If you look up different, you know, you can look up any diagnosi you know, hepatitis graves disease, you know, lung issues. So if you look at like pneumonia and things so apparently like grief is stored generally in the lungs in this area, right. And so I've had experiences where like, releasing grief and I've been had pain, like after I've released pain in this region, like literally, it's coming out of my body. And I know that sounds so hippy dippy. I could hear myself time.

Damaris Grossmann: 19:46

I mean, at this point in my career, I feel like this in my life I I don't think anything's happening. I feel like it's all interconnected in some manner. So I'm, I'm a big I completely get it and I don't completely get it meaning I understand it and I'm still learning myself but I don't

Veronica Leigh Max: 20:00

think I don't think we have the I really don't think we have the ability to completely get it you know, I think I've definitely gotten the message before like, oh, that cute little human brain like you know, these these human creatures like I get the feeling that we're this like relatively lowly evolved species you know, and within our capacity to even unruly understand about the world and the universe is really so limited. It's it's, it's it's almost kind of like funny. But what I guess what I was finding I mean, it's

Damaris Grossmann: 20:36

so amazing, like you're saying the psychology of like our mental health in our in the words in our in our, our illnesses are connected, and they talk about each selves.

Veronica Leigh Max: 20:45

Yes, so, exactly. So so where this is like come into my my, my work right? Our focus our professional work is that, you know, I understand and then I started seeing after, you know, I've worked with patients for like the last 10 years or so as a nurse practitioner, right, but like almost f certainly every chronic disease, especially autoimmune diseases, cancer, they always have a, you know, emotional depression anxiety component, you Oh, of course, I mean, trauma, you know, we treat depression, anxiety, insomnia is like, private ideologies, right? Well, yes, we treat it with a pill. And, oh, this is, uh, this is something wrong with you will know, that's a symptom, it's the body trying to tell us trying to communicate with us, because I truly believe that the, you know, the body makes no mistakes, the body is infinitely wise, and all of these symptoms that we have that that Western medicine teaches us to just medicate with a pill, right? That these symptoms, these are, this is our body's way of communicating to us that something is wrong, or something needs our attention, right. And it's a big, it's a, you know, it's a great travesty, in my mind that we then, you know, medicate these symptoms away. And then of course, we just continue to break down. And and really, I mean, I should even use that terminology. It's not breaking down the body. But oh, well, you didn't listen to my subtle message. And so I'm going to have to send you a stronger and stronger louder and louder message until you listen. But unfortunately, you know, we're not taught that we're taught that there's, you know, this is a normal, we break down, you know, these are apparent things that happen, and then you just need to be treated with drugs. And, you know, but what I have learned is that, you know, this is these are messages, you know, like people with thyroid issues, right? Oftentimes, it's because they hold, they're not speaking their voice, they haven't spoken their voice, right, they've held that in. And that manifests physically with thyroid disease, often, I mean, if you and I think that's what it says, here, if you look this up, so this is just cool. You know, it's cool for, you know, sometimes I have patients, I'm like, I just want to kind of understand, you know, from a psychological emotional perspective, what might be going on here? and not

Damaris Grossmann: 23:13

go Do you know, what I mean? It's like real stuff. And really, when it comes out, I'm, I mean, I'm a PhD.

Veronica Leigh Max: 23:22

This is a Yeah, PhD that wrote this book. This is not this is not this is not like, you know, out there, like esoteric stuff. No, like trauma, the research coming out about trauma. You know, we know now you've probably probably the most well publicized and research, you know, is about aces adverse childhood events. But those only really take into account shock, trauma, and we know that, you know, aces, I forget what the score, you know, if your score over a certain number, I forget what it is. I know it's a, you can score on a zero, I think it's 10 I think it's a zero to 10 scale. But if you're, you know, you score over a certain number you are, you know, twice as likely to develop heart disease, you know, you're, you have a 70% increase likelihood of, you know, having an early death. That's, I mean, we know that there are these, you know, physical correlations. So, I mean, there's a ton of a ton of stuff coming out about this. So it's, it's by no means is it fringe, it's just that, you know, this doesn't fit into the normal box of Western medicine was the paradigm of Western medicine. Right? And,

Damaris Grossmann: 24:40

and it's also a new creative approach. Now, with your practice you've been doing well, not just for yourself, and then now you

Veronica Leigh Max: 24:45

might I don't know, so So. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know how you could do otherwise. I that's how I feel.

Damaris Grossmann: 24:51

I don't know. Like, once I've opened the box, I felt once I've learned it for myself, I, I can't not you can't

Veronica Leigh Max: 24:57

not share that. Because it's like, it's not like that. I mean, I don't I don't know how to be just like, you know, I got into functional medicine before I, you know, even started down this path, just because that just made sense to me. Even as a teenager, I had acne and so I was always, you know, I guess my dad, you know, my dad was a very much had an open mind was out of box thinker. And so I was always, you know, tinkering with diet and doing research and seeing what I could do. And, you know, I remember going to the dermatologist, they're like, Oh, yeah, what you eat doesn't have any impact on your, on your skin. And I'm like, Well, that doesn't make any sense. So I knew at an early you know, so I'd always been interested in you know, like, this more integrative like functional approaches, because it just my critical thing, thinking self it just, you know, like, otherwise didn't make any sense. I forget where I was going with that. So I always, you know,

Damaris Grossmann: 25:48

you kind of felt like you kind of had already had that in your backburner and then this at? Yeah, like when you're dealing? Also?

Veronica Leigh Max: 25:55

Yeah. So I guess what I was saying is that I couldn't so people like, Oh, do you do use functional medicine? Because you know, I have a primary care practice, we're not a functional practice, right? And so do we do pure functional medicine? I mean, and I would say, do we run, you know, when we intake a patient till we run, like, 1000s of dollars worth the test and do it once? Like most functional practices would do? No, no. And in fact, I don't really advertise that we're root cause. But I don't know how to and my providers don't know how to function in any other way. But to look at root cause, when we're, I mean, yes, we need to use medications, and things, you know, while we're, you know, doing this, you know, this kind of investigation. You know, we're maybe sometimes people always need medication, depending on what the issue is, but we're always, you know, like, looking for and trying to address root causes and other things that are, I mean, I don't know how to practice in any other way. I don't know how to have that knowledge and then not use it, you know, and so certainly, that that carries over to, to this to like, the, you know, the emotional, because if we have, like stored emotions that we don't express or that we don't you know, that like, they stay with us, and they cause symptoms in the body, like, there's a ton of research on this isn't whack a mole, you know, yeah, stuff. Just because, you know, mainstream hasn't accepted it or, you know, doesn't mean it's not that it's not, you know,

Damaris Grossmann: 27:28

adequate or, or, or we are going we're useful.

Veronica Leigh Max: 27:31

Yeah, that doesn't mean it's not real. Right. So

Damaris Grossmann: 27:35

I think it's like having these conversations with individuals, obviously, seeing the research, but also that, you know, things coming into light to see that this does also work, let's see, you know, outside the bar, it's not just outside the box thinking, let's

Veronica Leigh Max: 27:49

use it to get there, I think, but I think the problem here is, you know, the medical model, you know, which were advanced practice nurses, so we're trained in the nursing model or

Damaris Grossmann: 28:01

nursing model, we're trained in the nursing

Veronica Leigh Max: 28:02

model, but we, you know, generally the system that we operate in is the medical model, right, which is a very disease centric approach. It's also a very paternalistic approach, meaning, you know, me as a doctor, like, as a doctor, or as a nurse practitioner, you know, the idea is that I know better than you, right? That you know, I need to I need to seek advice in order for like, if I'm having you know, chest pain. I'm, or I'm having this like, pain in my musculus, like I've been having this past summer, I need to go seek the expertise of you know, this person in a position of power to tell me what's wrong with me and how to fix it. That's a paternalistic approach. That's not how I practice. Because I believe that I don't heal anyone. I am simply a guide. I provide education, I provide support. But the only person that can heal you is you write beautifully said, Yeah, but this model that we operate in, that's threatening?

Damaris Grossmann: 29:15

Yeah. Well, I mean, we're trying to do things differently, just in general with our businesses and, and have the conversations more, and I'm hoping that whether this podcast and us is, you know, individuals and providers that were getting the message out to individuals and saying, this isn't the answer is not just one way, you know, you don't come to me because of that you come to me, because we're going to discuss and it's a whole approach, you know,

Veronica Leigh Max: 29:41

yeah, no, I mean, I try. I mean, in fact, I and our practice and our website, you know, we signal against that, if you just want a doctor who's going to tell you what to do. We're not the right practice for you. You know, I like I openly say that on our website, you know, so um, yeah, I mean, I think it's important to talk about it. But I think the most important thing, you know, because I could not have been able to help people from at this level had I had I not gone through this, this process in this journey myself. So really, I think the most important thing is for you know, because I think, especially as nurses, I see that, I mean, we all have trauma, by my definition, everyone has trauma, you know, yes, I agree. And it's so important that we do our own personal, emotional work, so that we can then because we can't help people through something that we haven't, you know, if we're at this low level of consciousness, right, we can't we can't help you know, we can't help someone through Because you

Damaris Grossmann: 30:51

don't know what you don't know,

Veronica Leigh Max: 30:53

right? We haven't advanced, like, if you talk to me a couple years ago, I've been, like, I was uncomfortable for me to talk to patients about their emotions and stuff because I wasn't comfortable with my own emotions. Right, like, right, right. And so, yeah, I think really, you know, these truths, you know, that I've learned, they come from, they come from within, and we all have access to the to this right, like, I really believe when, you know, I'm not I'm not a religious person, I would consider myself a spiritual person. You know, but I was raised, you know, raised as Baptist, I guess, um, you know, but I guess what is the phrase, you know, the king that's in the Bible, The kingdom of heaven is within, right. And what that means to me is that God is with that we are all God like that. We're all, we all have a God's self. Right. And that's that part of us that's connect that is source, right? We all

Damaris Grossmann: 31:53

have an energy, you know, yeah. And everything, I always talk about it within Yeah, whatever that is, for you. I don't have a name for you. I don't you know, it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't matter, right.

Veronica Leigh Max: 32:03

But knowing is we all have that capability. And we all have access to that truth. And that wisdom and that knowledge, if we're willing to do our work, and reconnect with it and access it, you know, so many of us have just are so disconnected. And I think, you know, like, the nursing profession, for instance, probably selects for people that, you know, it selects for people that can compartmentalize, and, you know, because how can you deal with someone that's, you know, say, you know, sick or they're, you know, dying of cancer on a daily but, you know, you've got, you know, and so it selects for people who can easily do that. And while you know, while that may be a good adaption for that work environment, that's not a being disconnected and compartmentalised is not a healthy way to live, you know. So,

Damaris Grossmann: 32:55

the last two years that would have you been worked? Well, I mean, obviously been talking about your grief. What have you used, particularly in your mindful way to kind of grow? Well, I mean, even as a mom, I mean, you're a mom to grow through a lot of things. That's right. It's a lot. Yeah,

Veronica Leigh Max: 33:10

yeah. No, I mean, I think so. I mean, what it boils down to right is, I mean, I could tell you, it's really the therapy that I used to do that wasn't that helpful was like talking about the things that were going on in my life and like, the, you know, it's more like, it all boils down to you. Because, like, the therapy I do now, it's like, oh, and you know, what I'm feeling What do you feel? I feel some pressure in my chest. Okay, well, what, what do you think that what what is that? You know, what does that feeling? What does that part, you know, I like I do I Fs, two internal family systems work. So it's part of work. So we all have these different parts, right? It's about connecting them, you know, like, one part might be, you know, my, like, five year old child that's like, me as my, as a five year old, like grieving, you know, that's, you know, maybe sad, because I didn't have someone there for me, you know, whatever it is, so. So what does that part feeling? What is that part want to say, you know, it's kind of like you go along and collect all your parts and integrate them. So I really loved ipfs and narm. neuro affective relational modeling is another modality I really like. But I mean, really, they're all trauma based about getting getting in your body and, you know, connecting with your body. Because that's the thing, you know, and I teach my children, you know, the mind will play tricks on us. But you know, the body never lies. You know, the mind will, you'll rationalize, it'll tell you one thing or another, the body will always and never lies, it always tell you the truth. So it's, you know, about connecting with and feeling what you're, you know, what your body is saying. It's really the core of it for me, right, is I had an intense, you know, probably no one would ever have known this about me, like, externally, right? I didn't internally understand this about myself. You know, one day I had an experience, kind of in an altered state of consciousness, where

Unknown: 35:02

I

Veronica Leigh Max: 35:04

became aware of all of my unconscious thoughts that I had about myself. And they were terrible things, things that I would not even, like, I didn't even know I could think of things I would never, like, thought of my worst enemy, you know, and they and and they were, those were the those what were the thoughts that I was thinking about myself, but it was totally not conscious. And so really, you know, so I realized that I had an intent like I buy I not only did I not love myself, but I hated myself. And it's kind of a long story where you really have hard transgenerational stuff in the warehouse, all of that, you know, you're reading a book. I'm reading it in your book. So You know, I've got the business book that I need to finish editing and get that out. But I'm so sorry. My interest have just changed. But ya know, I actually have a title of a memoir, if I will, right that it's just, it's when but 30 Yes. No, no worries. So I mean, it's just been, I mean, if I want to boil it down, I mean, there's a lot of things there. But if I want to boil it down, it's the process of going from, you know, really self hatred to self love and self compassion, self compassion, right. And love it. And I call it and coming home to myself, you know, I spent, you know, most of my life silencing myself, you know, not saying no, when I I didn't even understand that I, that I had the power to say now. You know, intellectually Of course, I understood I, you know, I but, but at a core soul level, I thought that I, you know, I had to, you know, basically trade my No, for instance, for love from my parents growing up or acceptance or whatever you know, was,

Damaris Grossmann: 36:59

I can understand that, like, I can relate to that I always tried to be the perfect kid or I never knew about juice bar for exactly, yeah, a lot of my processing was understanding like, a boundary was okay. So I mean, yeah, yeah, that was just like, Oh, it's good. Yeah, that's the only way I'm getting I okay. Yeah, I had no idea what boundaries were right. Yeah, it was part of it.

Veronica Leigh Max: 37:23

So yeah, so that's kind of the you know, so going through that kind of evolution and process, which is like, I mean, that's a huge catalyst formation. Yeah. No, it's definitely very intense. And, you know, there's a lot of work. And like I said, you know, while back I think that we're always on, on that journey, but you know, and I've had a lot of great No, no longer talk therapist, but you know, I really love cranial sacral therapy breathwork. That I was like, This horn. Is that you? I was like, is

Damaris Grossmann: 38:00

that one? No, no, no, it's on my end. Sorry about that. Yeah. How did you navigate this intense, you know, transition, the last couple years were trying to heal and be a mom, like, I would have to say like this past year, trying to go through some of my things. I got struggled, I really struggled trying to get through my physical ailments and my physical stuff. When I was doing really well. Oh, my God, I had years of like, Okay, I've got my therapist and my things. How did you cope with some of that? Because I know, I struggled. And I haven't gone through but gotten better.

Veronica Leigh Max: 38:33

Yeah, I mean, I think it's, um, I totally understand that. And I think it's important, you know, it's like, how I can't just drop everything. I've got businesses that I'm running. Right. That need to keep it together that yeah, I mean, I think it's asking for help. Right. And, and also understanding that you don't know what you don't have to keep it together. Right? Yeah. I allow my children to see when, you know, like, when I'm upset, and crying or sad. And I say, No, Mommy, what's wrong, you know, and I'm, well, I'm feeling sad, right? You know, we use that language with, with our kids, you know, because I want them to know that it's okay. Like, I don't want them to ever feel as I did growing up that like those emotions, there's that they are not okay, you know, like, in order to feel joy and happiness, we have to be able to also experience sadness and grief, you know, and, and there's been moments where I've experienced and just allowed sadness, you know, just deep sadness to wash over me and then lo and behold, that washes away that just, you know, that just you know, dissolves away and what shows up in its places is joy, you know, bliss, there's a I think there's a quote by Joseph Campbell, any emotion felt fully is pure bliss, you know, and I really that's true, you know, this, we have this emotion response that if you just allow it, rather than try to push it away, which is what most people do, which is what you know, what we do with medications we now met we you know, or with alcohol or with food, you know, or with exercise we use all of these things to run away and numb our emotions. But if we just allow the emotion and you know, it really only lasts like 90 seconds or something I think it's the physiological response to that and then it just kind of if we allow it then it just fades away. But if we push it down, then it just gets louder and

Damaris Grossmann: 40:25

louder and louder and louder and manifest into all of these items. Have you been on a yoga mat a

Veronica Leigh Max: 40:30

lot then you know i not Yoga has not been one of the things you know and actually meditation I've not I've tried meditation in the past haven't gotten into that but I would you know, I would

Damaris Grossmann: 40:41

do you like hiking, you hike that you know,

Veronica Leigh Max: 40:44

yeah, I do hike. You know, I try to get out in nature. You know, acupuncture crazy You're sick I've really if you find a good cranial sacral therapist in particular, I found emotional release cranial sacral to be very helpful.

Damaris Grossmann: 41:00

I guess everybody has got something, whatever works for you,

Veronica Leigh Max: 41:03

whatever works for you, but just knowing that there's so many other modalities out there to help you beyond just like traditional talk therapy and Dorje, a traditional medical, you know, provider, that if you're suffering from something like anxiety, depression, and I would also argue that for you know, most physical diseases, it's important to be using different modalities, you know, that access this emotional part. You know, shamanic healing, even I've worked with a shaman, you know. So, like, there's a great shaman in Austin. He also has a PhD in neuroscience, like, she's a badass. Yeah, no, you know, so there's just so many different modalities to help you, you know, and that have been around for like, 1000s of years. So, you know, I heard someone say the other day, well, you know, I don't really, you know, because someone had called, you know, these other things. Alternative or call Ray Ray approach.

Damaris Grossmann: 42:01

I have no real I'm so adamant about saying angina.

Veronica Leigh Max: 42:05

Yeah, that's tradition, like really like I Aveda and sramana key like, these things are traditional right medicine. And these other things are alternate. They're new, but by that standards, right. So yeah, like I went to now your Vedic practitioner, not long ago, and I was just like, floored by all the information she was able to gather just by looking at my tongue. And the reason I want your tongue

Damaris Grossmann: 42:32

and your pulse.

Veronica Leigh Max: 42:33

Yeah, like my tongues fucked up, guys. Like my tongue has been, you know, looking like terrible since I was a kid. Like, and I'll you know, no, no, no. traditional medical doctor can tell me what it is. It's like, Oh, yeah, this is this. I mean, I was just like, Oh, you know, would have been nice to have this information. 30 years ago? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so there's just lots of different you know, and I think it's important to be open to that. You know, heck, I even I ever for patients now to the ones that I feel will be open, right, where it's in public, or patients where they are right, patients that are looking for additional help outside of, you know, what I can offer to them, because I can't, you know, this is such, like, what I've learned through this process is that, you know, we think those of us in this medical, you know, paradigm think that we like know, everything there is that we know so much about the body and you know, and what I've come to realize is like, what we know is like so small, oh, almost laughable. Like we know nothing, basically. And it's so much better for your patients, if you can have that humility to accept that, right? Because then you're open to all these other, you know, things. So I, I send patients that I think would benefit and are open to it, because you're not going to benefit if you're not open to it. Right. Right.

Damaris Grossmann: 44:01

You're right. Like, you have to have an acceptance.

Veronica Leigh Max: 44:03

Yeah, I would refer them to you know, I've referred people to the shaman or who are to cranial sacral you

Damaris Grossmann: 44:10

know, acupuncture, or Yeah, like, I flavors. Yeah, I talked to people about ralphing. And I've ever been heard of that. Yeah, yeah. That one. So it's like, I have to see who can kind of fit the but yeah, most part. Yeah, there's different things that will, it depends upon the patient. Right.

Veronica Leigh Max: 44:26

Exactly. And I always say like, hey, this might like for the cranial sacral therapy, like, this is gonna, you know, she's a little, you know, it might seem a little out there to you, but, you know, cuz I know, like me five years ago, I would have been like, what the hell? Yeah. And it might feel uncomfortable, like, you know, but allow whatever comes up for you allow it know that you're safe, and just go with it. And you're going to get the most out of it that way, you know, because it's easy, because I can I can empathize, right? Because I know that the me, you know, a few years ago would have been like, this is wacky, you know, you know, hippie, dippie tree hugger stuff. Right? Right. You know, but now, you know, as more of a whole person connected to that inner knowing and that, you know, that big t truth, right? I know that no, there's these things, you know, totally makes sense. And, you know, have

Damaris Grossmann: 45:27

they have a place in our health and, you know, and it's, it's just having the conversations with you and, and one of them and other people and listen to their stories and knowing that like, we need more out there a minute and it's happening and we're discussing it, you know, it's not a, you know, one set fix, and I hope that through your journey that I mean, obviously we're all growing, you're still processing Dealing with, you know, you're going to be a mom again, you know? What is one major takeaway recently as through your process lately, and through your business that you would say, has helped you the most? Or is it just kind of like talking about this and getting things out? Um, one takeaway, I don't know, if it's a one thing or, you know, I feel like it's probably a lot right now. So

Veronica Leigh Max: 46:14

yeah, I'm trying to, you know, the biggest lesson for me over the course of this has been surrender, right? That's, life is so much better if we just surrender. And again, that kind of harkens to what's going on in the world right? Now. There's just this sense that, hey, we can control COVID. And we can control all these things through these, you know, public health initiatives, etc. and control is, is another is an illusion, right? It's an illusion that like, maybe as a child that was adaptive to Okay, well, if I try to, like if I behave in a certain way, and I'm perfect, then like, maybe my parents will love me, right? Like, there's a sense that because a child is egocentric, they think, Oh, well, if my parents are happening, I'm the cause and, you know, and so we learned and tried to control but that's, that's like, that's, that's, that's not how the world works, right? We, and so really, life is just, if you can just, you know, like the pain that I was having in the fatigue, you know, my, the instinct right from from, you know, the old pattern that I had in child was, let me just work harder, push through it, ignore it, you know, push it away. But really the lesson, you know, my craniosacral therapist, I saw her about a month ago, she said, Well, what if, you know, things aren't always what they seem, they are, you know, the fatigue, may isn't, maybe you just need to surrender, like, like, lay on the couch all day surrender to it, allow it right. So it's, it's about you know, and then because sometimes these things just want to, it's like the same thing with the emotions, they just want to be heard. It's your, it's your body's and it's just surrender. Allow it, you know, I really do believe that the universe, you know, we tried to, I've tried to control so much of my life, to, you know, to reach particular goals and outcomes. And if I had just, and what I do do now is just surrender. Instead of trying to control and force something, I surrender to what's happening, right. And the, and what I found is that, you know, when I let go of things, then the universe brings me something that's even bigger than what I could have even imagined even bigger. And even better than, and this whole, we've bought a ranch recently. And, you know, and that whole, like, evolution of that, you know, like, I just allowed, there are several places where, for instance, we almost, you know, we negotiate and negotiate in the house, and the dude was like, No, you know, that roof doesn't need and it's got another 10 years, even though it's leaking, like, Hey, I'm not paying, you know, the old me would have been like, Fuck, I'll just pay, you know, I'll just, I'll take his price. And I'm not I won't negotiate. And because I want to be in this, I want to be back in Texas, and my kids need to be school and, you know, I want to have a place there. And I would have like control try to control to force the outcome that I wanted. But instead I said, I had this trust that that I will find the right place you know, we'll find the right house that the thing that's best for me will happen if I just let go. And so I said, You know what, fuck that Fuck, you know, I'm not paying premium dollar for house with a, you know, a fucking leaf leaking roof. Yeah, you know, and so I said, so we terminated the contract. And you know what happened? And my husband's like, yeah, you know, he was totally on the same page, because he's been doing this work with me. You know, we've been doing this individually, but together Yeah, yeah, again. Anyway, so

Damaris Grossmann: 50:08

did you found a new space?

Veronica Leigh Max: 50:09

So the next then Well, no, the next day the dude responded and he took the the offer that he would be lowered his price. Exactly. So I got what I want because I was willing to walk away. We were, you didn't attach your suppose I knew outcome. Correct. Yep. Exactly. So it's, it's, you know, right. Because the attachment is the source of all suffering. So is Yeah.

Damaris Grossmann: 50:33

And I had a hard time learning that and I'm still learning but I mean, I learning that that that behavior of myself in my patterns, and like I said, 12 years it's been but I probably 14 years, but I work on a daily because it's a conversation of the surrendering and I call it my strength within and as I talked And I, I very much appreciate and value. And I like I almost want to cry a little bit the fact that you've taken a lot of vulnerability and your time for us and I, I don't want to keep it anymore because I value your precious time with you and your family and your work. It's beautiful how much you've shared with the audience, and I would love for you to be on the show again, and or even other asked me to do it, I work with you plenty. And so to have them, you know, see more of you. So I just wanted before we say goodbye for the show, is there one quote or one little statement that you'd like to say before the day? This is, um,

Veronica Leigh Max: 51:34

you know, everybody's afraid. This is something that I teach my, my, I guess it would be two things, right? That's what I said earlier. You know, the mind will play tricks on you, but your body never lies. So connecting, I find that it's really important to always connect and check in with my body, and I teach my children that. And then the other thing that I teach my children that, that I've tried to live by, especially now is you know, we're all afraid if you're as normal, right. And like yesterday, submitter interchange with someone and like fear. Fear did come up. But uh, but but it's courage is is action, in the face of fear. It's a lot, you know, it's taking action Anyway, you know, it's not allowing that fear to control you. So I think that's, I think that's also pretty precious or precious for, you know, the time we live in, which is that we're all afraid and that's normal. But it's important, you know, to have to take action, in the face of that fear. That's courage or bravery. You know, and that's important. You know, and I try to live by that in my actions, right? I don't always live up to that. And I haven't always in the past, but you know, that's definitely my my, my guidepost. It's beautiful. No, I

Damaris Grossmann: 52:55

as it's beautifully said, I so appreciate you being on and thank you for sharing your time with us. And I look forward to you being on again and just ask, How can people reach out to you because you have plenty of businesses, you got your purse, so please, like, let's get that in. I'll have them in the show notes also, but I want you to tell that to

Veronica Leigh Max: 53:17

Yeah, so I have the American Academy of nurse entrepreneurs, I've got courses and some, you know, online content helped me out a ton. Yeah, thank you. I'm glad for nurse practitioners that are interested in starting their own business. And then you know, of course, my practice in Texas is ultra personal healthcare. Got two other npws you know, working with me that are doing most of the patient care these days. And yeah, I mean, I'm on all the social, you know, social media outlets and I can make one promise and that is that I will always speak my truth so some people don't like that but you know, that I will not be silenced.

Damaris Grossmann: 53:58

Well, I'm, I'm glad you're speaking your truth whether people want to, you know, everybody has a voice and that's the most important. It's important that you use your voice. Absolutely. love us. It was great having you on and thank you so much for your time again. Thanks.