From Academia to the Caribbean: Dr. Marnie's Journey of Healing and Empowerment

Could your talent for catching boa constrictors hold the key to a transformative life change? Join us on the Mindfully Integrative Show as we welcome Dr. Marnie Hill-Federo, a Harvard-educated author and speaker who shares her fascinating journey from academia to the heart of the Caribbean. Discover how she moved to St. Croix and learned to navigate not only the local wildlife but also the complexities of toxic relationships. Dr. Marnie’s candid revelations about her personal experiences highlight the profound connection between mental and physical health, emphasizing the power of self-reflection and tough decisions in achieving a balanced life.

Imagine breaking free from a 27-year marriage only to face the trauma of parental alienation and legal manipulation. This episode tackles the harrowing issue of narcissistic abuse and the deep scars it leaves behind. Dr. Marnie sheds light on the often-overlooked trauma of such relationships and the challenges of recognizing abuse while still entangled in it. With a focus on creating awareness through National Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day, we discuss the ripple effects on family dynamics and the importance of open conversations in mental health. Dr. Marnie’s poignant stories offer hope and build a sense of community for listeners facing similar struggles.

How do you rebuild your life after escaping an abusive relationship? Dr. Marnie shares her path to recovery, emphasizing the resilience required to maintain one’s principles and professional independence. She speaks on the importance of self-care, setting healthy boundaries, and the difficult yet necessary choices to distance oneself from toxicity, even within the family. Concluding with a powerful message of hope, this episode inspires listeners to find true happiness and self-love, drawing from Dr. Marnie’s story of personal growth and empowerment. Don't miss this episode filled with practical advice for achieving a mindful, integrative approach to well-being.

Chapters

• 0:25 Healing Through Integrative Health and Writing
• 10:45 Overcoming Trauma and Toxic Relationships
• 21:57 Recovery and Reflection
• 30:08 Empowering Personal Growth and Healing

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:25

Hi, how are you? This is Dr Damaris Maria Grossman, and this is the Mindfully Integrative Show, and today we have a wonderful guest doing a mindful chat. Her name is Dr Marnie Hill-Federo and she has years of experience as an author, as a teacher, as a speaker and an educator, so there's many things that she is going to speak with you and I love just her website alone is God came to my garage sales. So I want you to know and find more about her, because she also has written many of books. So thank you so much for being in the show, dr Marnie.

Speaker 2: 1:00

Oh, you're welcome. Thank you so much for having me here.

Speaker 1: 1:03

Oh, I really appreciate it. So, as I kind of tell those on the show, just a little fun fact that someone may not know about you, because you are, you know, postdoctoral Harvard. You know, you've done so much, you're educated, highly educated and also well-renowned. So please talk to those in the about your story. And just a small little fun fact before we go into it.

Speaker 2: 1:26

Let's see a fun fact about me because I really have put a lot out there, I would say now that I have moved to the Caribbean.

Speaker 1: 1:35

That's cool.

Speaker 2: 1:37

You know, I'm in St Croix in the US Virgin Islands.

Speaker 1: 1:40

That sounds beautiful.

Speaker 2: 1:41

I've lived here for three years, but never in my life would I think that I would be skilled at catching boa constrictors. So we have and they're not native to our Island, but we certainly have them um here in abundance. And, um, even though they're not venomous which is nice they still can bite and, of course, constrict, and it's just no fun to have a snake around your house. So, um, I have gotten pretty good at catching boa constrictors. It's just no fun to have a snake around your house. So, um, I have gotten pretty good at catching boa constrictors.

Speaker 1: 2:12

Oh my, do you have like a, you know? Do you have like a wrangler, like a thing, like a?

Speaker 2: 2:16

I have um, uh, we call them snake tongs and um because where I live is on many acres in the rainforest. We have numerous snake tongs in various locations. Acres in the rainforest, we have numerous snake tongs in various locations so that you know if I come across one, you know I can, I can catch it and you know there are a couple people on the island that are interested in having them as a like dinner. But I also call the DPNR guy. There's a there's, we call him the snake whisperer, but he comes from St Croix snakes and gets them because he collects the data and researches them and trying to help eradicate them from our island.

Speaker 1: 3:01

But anyway, that's my fun fact.

Speaker 2: 3:03

Wow, that's a pretty big one. Yeah, yeah, I've actually caught, so we've had 20 in the three years.

Speaker 1: 3:10

Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 3:12

I know, I guess, so something I that's a fun fact, I guess how, I don't know what, I don't. We keep our doors closed, so so, but they're definitely right around, they. They enjoy our gardens and our birds, and oh my oh, no, oh, that's my fun fact.

Speaker 1: 3:30

You know you moved to the islands to be more relaxed. I don't know that's, that's a lot.

Speaker 2: 3:35

I'm okay. I I appreciate nature. I think that you know, being in nature is just so very healing on so many different levels.

Speaker 1: 3:44

So yeah, so let's talk about you. You have a wealth of you know history and you know this show is really about integration of health and and your journey, obviously, as an educator, and so, how you know, let's talk about your story and and how you've kind of come to where you are now.

Speaker 2: 4:07

Sure, well, just you know, without going into too much detail because I have talked about my story and what has led me to write my books, but in keeping with integrative health, which you know I really support, especially just natural ways of healing yourself.

Speaker 2: 4:29

One thing I'd like to point out is so many people don't realize that if we have surrounded ourselves, whether we know it or not, with toxic individuals or toxic situation, that can actually that stress can manifest itself in your body and could you know where you were end up with, you know, physical ailments or autoimmune diseases.

Speaker 2: 4:56

And of course, so many, so many responses are oh, pop a pill for this, pop a pill for that, when really there are so many other things that you can do, and one of them is realizing taking a look at yourself and look at your life and look at your relationships, your family, your partnerships, your neighbors, your work colleagues, look at situations and people you know. Really do some reflection and try to decide how healthy these relationships or situations are, because you might find that some of them are not as healthy as you think, where you could be trauma, bonded with another person because you've known them for years and you just always thought they had your back or you know you might wake up one day and find evidence to show that you know the person you are in a partnership with doesn't have the same values as you do with regards to honesty or fidelity, or you know money or whatever it is.

Speaker 2: 6:09

And so you know you've got to make some very tough decisions about whether to stay or go or how to, you know, alter your interaction so that you are in a healthy state mentally. So, and I had to do that and, as a result, I left a marriage after 27 years. I left, uh, my American dream, um, which really was myself living in a false reality with regards to, uh, what I thought I was living. You know, definitely, my career as a teacher. That was the real deal and I really enjoyed that and saw that through till I retired.

Speaker 2: 6:53

But I did have to make some decisions and they were really hard decisions and even after you make those initial decisions there's a lot of repercussions and fallout that come sometimes years after you make these decisions. And then you have to kind of analyze, reanalyze where you are at with some people in your life or situations in your life, and make another round of possible changes just to kind of protect yourself. But I will say you know as tough as that I would say, emotional, spiritual healing journey was and there's a lot of losses and there's a lot of pain. When you can get through that and come out the other side, you'll find that, emotionally and physically, you are in optimum health, and you know so it really.

Speaker 2: 7:50

No one else can really do this for you. You have to do this for yourself. Yeah, listen to podcasts, read some books, get some ideas, talk to different people, but the the final choice is really yours and how you want to conduct your life, and I'm just you know, I'm so glad I've always had a positive outlook. I've always believed that love and compassion and knowledge can really steer us in a positive way, and so I had a foundation that really was conducive to helping me make some of these big changes. But it's in midlife that I'm doing this. You know I was just going along. You know my whole life.

Speaker 1: 8:35

Right, Wow, and with I mean you brought five books, correct? Is that correct?

Speaker 2: 8:41

I have written six books. Yeah, the first book is a spiritual fiction called God came to my garage sale.

Speaker 1: 8:48

So that's where your first book came. Is that that? That is the first book after losing everything you know.

Speaker 2: 8:54

This character amazing. She has to have a garage sale and some spiritual miracles happen and cause. You're a spiritual teacher.

Speaker 1: 9:02

You're a high school year. I mean you have such an array of. I think you have so much, so much to tell people. You know half hour is not going to be enough.

Speaker 2: 9:10

We're going to have to be on a journey. It's a journey, we all have a journey, and sometimes we're compelled to share our journey because not only it's healing for us, but it's it's also healing for other people. They can find inspiration. This is just one. This is the first book of my five book series called True Deceit, false Love, and in that I didn't plan on writing that five book series. In fact, after I wrote the first book, and even though it was prominently endorsed by people in the abuse recovery community, I went on to write, within a very short time, four other books related to this, and it's to bring awareness in a very general way to domestic violence, narcissistic abuse, parental alienation, which is a devastating form of domestic violence.

Speaker 1: 10:03

Can you go into a little conversation? I mean domestic violence in itself is is can be significant or intimate. Partner violence yes, intimate partner.

Speaker 2: 10:13

Yes, that's what it's called Intimate partner violence.

Speaker 1: 10:16

Violence Right and the trauma from that in itself is just, and it happens to both men and women, so it is not a gender specific situation, but you, you wanted me to elaborate a little on parental alienation and that well, I mean, I just I didn't, you know, I think the combination of you know, the ipv or um, whichever you'd like to talk about, because we're here, I'm here to try to highlight and discuss ways that you've been able to transition right. So that trauma, those things you've written and now you're able to talk about this because there is, I can only imagine, unfortunately, how many. I mean you've done your, probably your, your research on what is it? One in four or have some sort of abuse.

Speaker 2: 10:59

Yeah, I actually put it on my website. There there are numerous statistics, and and actually because unfortunately, you know one.

Speaker 2: 11:07

Yeah, because June 1st was National Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day. Just kind of like there's a Hallmark holiday for anything. There's lots of these different issues end up having a day of awareness because it really needs to be something that's more readily available for people to understand and maybe connect the dots to their own experience and they might realize wow, I am in the middle of this Because one of the hallmarks of being in an abusive situation and it's not just from my personal experience but from a lot of research that I have done is that so many times we don't know we're in it while we're in it and it's when you finally have the straw that breaks the camel's back or you know some big revelation, some big, big trauma where you, you know, then remove yourself from that situation just for your own safety. It's then that you realize, wow, there were so many red flags along the way that I did not pay attention to and that many people don't pay attention to, and, just like people that have had near-death experiences, they have flatlined and survived their medical trauma, but they have experienced something that is just unbelievable. And there are thousands of accounts that are very, very similar that people have experienced.

Speaker 2: 12:35

You know. The same is true with, just you know, emotional family trauma. It can be so devastating. I mean, it was devastating for me to to leave a 27 year marriage, something that I thought would be forever, but at the same time I almost didn't have a choice. After some of the things that I learned and so I made, I did make a choice. I suppose I could have stayed in it, and I was pretty much threatened to stay in it, but I knew that that wouldn't be healthy for me, nor would I be role modeling positive behavior for my adult children, but unfortunately I lost my adult children due to parental alienation, so they were older when this happened.

Speaker 1: 13:21

So what? How, how does, how does so? They've completely like alienated you. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 13:27

Oh, I'm so sorry for that. No, it's devastating. I hope at some point that they you know.

Speaker 1: 13:31

I hope at some point you're able to reconnect.

Speaker 2: 13:34

Every targeted mom or dad has hope, you know. But the reality is is that the brainwashing and the false narrative that's been, you know. And the control and manipulation, whether it's through money, been, you know. And the control and manipulation, whether it's through money, threats, you know, control of their electronics and their bills, that type of thing you know.

Speaker 2: 13:56

Lots of times these adult children, you know they're, even if they realize there's parental alienation and they see good versus evil, they sometimes don't want the stress of having to make a change because it's extremely stressful in their lives to be like this. But if you know of a child, a young or adult child, that thinks that everything is black and white, there's one good parent and one terrible parent, and if they have not communicated with that one parent, they believe it's terrible. For the most part that could be the loving targeted parent that was just cut off as a means from the other parent to destroy that parent parent. They want revenge, you know. Unfortunately in our world we have to deal with malevolent people and people that just don't always have the best interest. They will even sacrifice the wellbeing of their own children, you know to to hurt.

Speaker 1: 15:00

I can. I I unfortunately can can relate to my mother. She had, um, my father was, was in that narcissistic you know category, but she stayed with him all the way until, you know, he got sick and uh, I would say, now you know she reflects on the, the, the years of, you know, she was there 50 years in it, um, and she talks about it and we, but she's still not able to, I guess, get through that.

Speaker 2: 15:27

But it's also a different generation. Your mother is older than we are and we actually have platforms where we can get information about it or she did not know support Right.

Speaker 1: 15:40

Yeah. So it was a a definitely a challenge for her. I feel for her, I mean for us too, but I, I mean I had years therapy there. You know I went, I learned my, you know I, I learned my techniques. That's hence why I started this show, because I I feel like it needs to. Things need to be talked about and we need to talk about conversations without, um, feeling like a pill is going to be a conversation or everyone just has mental health and it's like all right there's more underlying.

Speaker 1: 16:05

Everyone needs to have um, to have you know conversations and figure out better ways to be healthier.

Speaker 2: 16:11

You know and yeah, and actually just our conversation, you know, in this podcast can reach one person and that could change the trajectory of how they choose to handle. You know what they're going through. And chances are there's a ripple effect because you know there are so many people like you and I that believe in goodness, believe in our natural bodies, believe in the wonder of the world and positivity and how you know, really our thoughts can control all sorts of things. And so we're spreading the word, so we're creating that ripple effect, I believe.

Speaker 1: 16:53

Oh, that's, I hope so. You know every little, every one, one you know person on here and one conversation. I hope someone listens right and they're having that and knowing that they're not alone. You know, yeah, I mean, I know that you, if you want to talk about one of the books or a story within your you know, your, you know a little bit more on your story, it's completely up to you, um, how you'd like to go further, but I know that you have a wealth of things to discuss.

Speaker 2: 17:19

So you know well, you know I I'm open to, to talk with talk about whatever you're interested in talking about. I just, I just want to provide inspiration and hope to your viewers and listeners that they are not alone and in whatever they are going through, even if they don't completely resonate with the topics that I discuss they might have their own situation in a workplace environment or with something with health or something with money.

Speaker 2: 17:48

You know, we all have challenges, but we have the power to choose to respond a certain way and we need to all take time to do more reflection, you know, and meditation is extremely helpful. I will say that I struggled with meditation for the longest time.

Speaker 2: 18:08

I had so much clutter in my mind and just really hard to settle down to, just kind of, you know, have like a blank slate to try to reflect, and sometimes there are people that can benefit from guided meditations where they actually follow someone else's direction, and that type of thing. But I also find being in nature, which, even when I spent a lifetime in the Chicago suburbs, I was still. I loved the seasons, I loved the prairie, I loved the Midwest landscape the Midwest, you know, landscape. I feel like I'm someone that could be planted anywhere in the world and I could find beauty in it. I'm so fortunate, though, to be in the Caribbean, because it's a different type of beauty that, you know, I can actually immerse myself in, like get into the ocean every day and, you know, take a walk in the rainforest every day, and that that really is grounding for me.

Speaker 1: 19:09

Oh, I can imagine how grounding it is. You're really one with the earth.

Speaker 2: 19:14

But even if you are in the heart of the city or in the suburbs, or on the coast or the East coast, or wherever you are, you can still find beauty in the world, even if it's through looking out a window you can still find beauty, and, but I would say to your viewers and listeners, instead of listening to, like a lot of specific stories that I have, you have the power within you to create the world you want to be, be the change that you want to see in the world, that famous quote we have the power to take control of our lives, and sometimes, though, it means making some hard choices about leaving these certain toxic kind of situations and people behind.

Speaker 1: 20:06

Wow, what I mean you. You had gone through so much. What. What was like your turning point for you? Was it just that, you know, pivotal point? That was just like, okay, this was enough, enough for myself. And then you said, okay, I have to change.

Speaker 2: 20:23

Yeah, I would say I definitely had a defining moment where, you know, I was just a regular day out for pizza with my husband and one of my children and I don't think it was intentional, but there were confessions made and wrongdoings exposed and, you know, if it was earlier on I might've just brushed it off, like I have always done, but you know what? It came to a point where I had connected so many dots that it was enough was enough and and actually I became very scared, um, um, and because abusers do instill fear, oh, of course, by what they do. That's kind of part of how they're able to control and manipulate. But I really I guess that was my turning point, but really it had been building for years and years and years. And then, of course, after when I realized that parental alienation was part of this, after when I realized that parental alienation was part of this, where my loving relationship with my kids and you know so many of us parents, moms and dads, you know our lives revolve around our kids. You know we spend years and years raising them and trying to instill good values and giving them great experiences and helping them to try to launch and, you know, be their own people and it seemed like for many, many years I was kind of fighting an opposite view of that type of thing but I was still plugging along.

Speaker 2: 21:57

But when you realize that you know you've been alienated from your children, almost like a cult, like brainwashing, it's just shocking. It's just shocking, it's just to your core. And you try all sorts of things to reach out the normal way visits, gifts, phone calls, texts, emails, whatever. And then you know, at times, with some real severe cases, abusers will even legally prevent you from connecting with your children, whether it's through orders of protection or whatever it is. Where you are, you don't even have a choice unless you want to. You know risk, you know an arrest or something like that, even though it's all based on lies and false information. Um, the you know abusers will use the court systems whenever they can. They will, they will continue and they will obsess over you Even a decade after you have escaped their control. You can be slapped with with more legal things that happen to so many people.

Speaker 1: 23:04

You've. You've overcome so much Like I I don't want to. You know, um think I just the now where you have come like so that turning point. How do you feel, now that you've transitioned and and, and you know you've kind of come on the other side, how are you feeling, how are you doing, Um, and what has been your best um way of, like healing?

Speaker 2: 23:28

Well, that's a great question, Multifaceted, but very great question, you know you can put it in one's point, it's up to you.

Speaker 2: 23:34

No, but I, I, you know, I, I have come a long way, but I still think that anyone who has been through what I have been through or anything similar, you still have to remain vigilant, you still have to pay attention because you know, like I said, these abusers are obsessive and you know they are constantly plotting yet another way to get at you, and of course, we read such devastating headlines at times with regards to a spouse murdering the other spouse or their or their own children, just to, in their, their sick, twisted way of revenge. So so I think that you know, you always, and I think I will always be on a healing journey and I will always have to be vigilant. And you know, in my case, my abuser has shown me that it doesn't matter if it's been almost a decade, they will continue, you know. So I think that that's being vigilant is something, unfortunately, we still have to deal with, and and the though eventually comes out, I mean, with anything, it seems, the truth eventually prevails.

Speaker 2: 24:46

But I would say, you know, I've been very fortunate, because of where I was at the stage in my professional life, that I was close to retirement, and so that's something like so many other people have been convinced to quit their jobs or go on disability or or, you know, be completely dependent on their abuser, you know, so that they feel like they have no way out. So I had some things working in my favor. I also a very close friend of mine that I, you know, enjoyed being around and traveled a lot with. He is now my life partner and so he really gets it. So I have found love and happiness again without even looking for it At all.

Speaker 2: 25:34

you know, because so many people that are in that experience domestic violence end up in yet another domestic violence situation with similar personalityas and, and you know what, you know what kind of molded you into an over empath or an over giver or someone that would tolerate you know, be a good target for, for an abuser.

Speaker 1: 26:13

So you know you're, you're being a good person, but I, it is they. They almost look for the ones that are the most sympathetic and the most loving, right that's. It's like right, you're in there. Psychology will show you and unfortunately, I wish it wasn't like that, but yeah you are definitely chosen before they.

Speaker 2: 26:28

you know they they're out. It's like a predator and a prey. They really are looking for the weakest link, and not that you are a weak individual, you're just someone who has had some other kinds of losses and traumas that they will capitalize on, and so it's just. You know, it's very hard for good, loving, sane, healthy people to think like a criminal, because that's not how we are wired. We're not.

Speaker 1: 26:56

That is not how we were taught. That's not who we are.

Speaker 2: 26:59

Yeah, and you know what I still believe, though, even after everything that I have gone through and so much that I have read that so many other people have gone through, I still believe in honesty and goodness and goodwill towards others, and I'm a little more discerning about who I let in my life or who I keep in my life, but that, that setting up, is like a healthy boundary.

Speaker 1: 27:25

I was just about to say boundaries.

Speaker 2: 27:26

I'm a it's not about them, you know like if I I chose like there's some people in my life that I have chosen I do not want in my life, I do, it is not bringing me joy, happiness. I see so many of the similar abusive tactics. I just it's not for me. But it's if I have made some of those choices, it's not that I don't love those people, even a family member. It's not that I don't love them and will always hold a special place in my heart. But the reality is that I can't subject myself to more and more abuse because I need to value myself. No one else will do that for me except myself.

Speaker 1: 28:14

I could not agree with you more. I think it's even more important for people to value themselves. You know, I don't think that we have, um, not everyone, I guess, as empaths or those sensitive ones we're not willing to look and say it's okay, you know, um, I very much so appreciate you being on the show. I mean, there's so much more I think we can even dive into with the trauma and the domestic violence since you. But would you like to leave the audience before you go with a small tip of your healing, or prior to that, or would you like to discuss a little bit of your career as a school teacher?

Speaker 2: 28:58

You know well, my career as a school teacher was just one of the most enjoyable things.

Speaker 1: 29:03

You're in Chicago area, right? I was in the.

Speaker 2: 29:06

Chicago suburbs, and I taught 35 years, mostly at the high school level. But and one thing, just about how I was as a teacher, I wasn't someone that you know stood up in front of the class imparting facts and knowledge. I was the kind of teacher that looked at each individual professor, sorry about that.

Speaker 2: 29:28

Well, I was an. I was a high school teacher for 35 years and 12 of those years I was an adjunct graduate school professor and actually in both different venues, with different age groups, I did more about looking at individual people as learners and trying to give them the permission to explore and investigate on their own that you know, people can present information to you, but you need to do some critical thinking on your own and and that's where some real learning comes. And so that's the kind of teacher that I was. But as far as just the to impart any final thoughts for your audience, I would really just say you know, you are a loving, beautiful human being and you know, stay true to your values and your integrity, and it is a very healthy practice, and hopefully you don't have to go through trauma that will induce this, but that you could take a look at your life and make some decisions about all sorts of things who you want to spend time with, who are people in your life that you should maybe go no contact with or low contact, who are people that you are drawn to be with, and maybe you know, move towards that, look at where you are living and make some decisions. Hey, is this where I want to spend the rest of my life, or should I go explore some other options for myself?

Speaker 2: 31:10

People need to look at their careers or their jobs and ask themselves if it's fulfilling. Now, of course, I know many of us have to have our day jobs or whatever, but you are nine to five, or whatever it's called, because we need to put food on the table. But at the same time, we should give ourselves permission to explore some other options, because you know money isn't everything. You know. Buying this or that or living here or there isn't everything. You know, and I learned that the hard way when I lost everything after leaving my marriage after 27 years. You know I had so much safety and security, but it was all false, and so you never know how strong you can be until you're you're put into a situation. But I just want to leave your audience with hope that you know they can. You know they can make changes in their lives and that's okay, and it's okay to put yourself first. It's not a selfish thing by any means. You know it's kind of like put your oxygen mask on first and then help the person next to you.

Speaker 1: 32:26

And it's so hard for some of us to see that I mean, I know just as perfectly. You know as you're as an educator, me as a provider of health, like we almost don't want to do that, or even as moms, right, and you almost, like you're instilled to kind of not realize that you have to help yourself, because you can't help anyone if you're not available. You know, if you're not able.

Speaker 2: 32:45

Right and you want to encourage others to help themselves. You know so, like one thing with my adult children, I always try to instill self-sufficiency. Try to instill self-sufficiency. Follow your own passions. Don't rely on everyone where you know abusers want the opposite. They want you dependent, they want to take away your freedoms. They and they want you to be happy, you know, even though you, you know, are, are stifled and you can't grow to be the person that you are meant to be. So you know, there's a lot of hope for for all of us. We just need to stay true to our, our positive values and make some, make some decisions about our lives.

Speaker 1: 33:31

You are so versed in what you say and I appreciate your time. I would love for the audience to be able to reach you. I know your first book is God Came to my Garage Sale. Would you recommend them to read that as your first book and how can they reach you otherwise?

Speaker 2: 33:51

Sure, Well, actually I'm not on social media because I wanted to spend more time in nature and enjoying my island as well as writing, but I do have a website, which is wwwgodcamedomygaragesalecom, and there you can read about me.

Speaker 2: 34:09

You could read about the various books. You know the six books I've written myself, as well as the five books that I have coauthored as part of anthologies. You can, under the happening section, you can tune into this podcast or many other podcast interviews that I've done as far as magazine articles I've written or book signings and that type of thing.

Speaker 2: 34:37

So, you know my website is the best place to to um, to check things out. And then my books are all on Amazon or Barnes and Noble. I'm with Balboa press, which is a division of Hay House. Hey, how wonderful. Yeah, so that's who I am with. So you can even go on that website and, uh, check out the books. And if money is tight for you which it is for a lot of people right now, e-versions of the books are $3.99 online. So libraries are carrying the books now and you know it's my book is in bookstores all across the nation and Europe and the Caribbean.

Speaker 1: 35:20

So well, I am so grateful for you know, your spiritual teachings, your, your time and kind of bringing a little bit of faith and love to like others, like so that they can have a little hope, you know, wherever they are in their journey, whether it's, you know, in the beginning of their stage or they just need to hear a little bit of positivity. So thank you so much again for your time.

Speaker 2: 35:43

Well, and thank you for what you do and for having this wonderful platform. You know, the mindfully integrative platform is just fantastic. It makes so much sense, especially now. So thank you for what you are doing and I I am glad you saw value in what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 35:59

Yes, absolutely Well. Thank you again and those watching. Like I said to you, make sure you find a mindful way each and every day and you have a beautiful day, whether it's a day or not. Thanks again and we'll talk with you soon. Enjoy the next episode.