The Healing Path: From FDA to Naturopathic Medicine

DR PAUL DABNEY

We Provide Essential Services For Your Health Care

Trust your health to a naturopathic specialist with more than 20 years of experience. As an avid learner who is not satisfied with mediocre understanding of a problem, naturopathic medicine suits me well. If I am not able to solve a clinical puzzle, an irresistible urge to understand and master it bubbles up inside of me, which spurs me to continue searching for a solution. The more I study medicine, the more I want to learn, and the wide variety of complex scenarios in natural medicine provides a perfect avenue for me to exercise this curiosity.

I am aware of the challenges facing the naturopathic profession, but ironically, these challenges are what make this profession so rewarding. They continue to drive me as a naturopathic consultant and inspire me to better understand and treat human illnesses.

My practice, the Center for Natural Health & Optimal Wellness LLC, offers patients natural and drug-free services, covering digestion disorders, arthritis, ADHD, adrenal fatigue, and stress management, and others. As a result, I continue to serve as an active consultant and medical investigator to many physicians in different areas of medicine, where I offer alternative solutions to many challenging and complex clinical scenarios.

The boundary between conventional and naturopathic medicine isn't as rigid as most people think—and Dr. Paul Dabney's remarkable journey proves it. After spending 14 years at the FDA and conducting antimicrobial resistance research for the CDC, Dr. Dabney found himself drawn to natural healing approaches that complemented his scientific background. His transition began when investigating the antimicrobial properties of green and black tea, opening his eyes to alternative treatment pathways that conventional medicine often overlooks.

Dr. Dabney brings a wealth of knowledge to complex conditions that frequently puzzle mainstream healthcare providers. His work with Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (MCAS) showcases how carefully applied natural interventions can be life-changing. When conventional doctors told one patient to "get her affairs in or

Chapters

• 0:47 Meet Dr. Paul Dabney
• 5:37 From FDA to Naturopathic Medicine
• 12:36 Understanding Mast Cell Activation Syndrome
• 18:35 Treating Sickle Cell with Resveratrol
• 23:27 Healing Ulcerative Colitis Naturally
• 36:52 Military Service and Royal Connections
• 46:21 Closing and Contact Information

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:24

Hi, how are you? This is Damaris Maria Grossman and this is the Mindfully Integrative Show, and today we have an amazing guest, dr Paul Dabney. He is a naturopathic and has an array of history in the health industry and worked for the FDA CDC. I'm hearing, and many of the things that got him into being a little bit more and I'd say, integrative, or a naturopath or a way of thinking. So I can't wait for you guys to meet him and to learn more about him, and his information will be available for you soon. So, hey, thanks so much, dr Paul. How are you?

Speaker 2: 0:56

Doing very well. Thanks for having me. I really was looking forward to being on your podcast. You have an offer your viewers a lot of information, and I would hopefully be able to contribute to that.

Speaker 1: 1:10

Oh, absolutely. I mean it's a little vast, but I felt like I kind of wanted to just touch base on different ways of thinking about health. So, and just you know, highlighting stories of different you know individuals, especially like yourself, so let's chat more. I mean, we were talking a little bit right before recorded and and I really want them to understand, kind of where you kind of came to being a naturopath and kind of where you were discussing with me prior. So can you go into that?

Speaker 2: 1:34

yeah, my, my background is is very is wide out, as wide open. I didn't start off as a natural, as you know, as a naturopathic physician. It started off with just very conventional science. My, my background is, you know, I have a bachelor's degree in microbiology and that's how it kind of started out. I worked for FDA for like 14 years, did research for CDC dealing with antimicrobial resistance, basically dealing with bacteria of the gut, enteric bacteria, the enteric bacteria, looking at that.

Speaker 2: 2:14

But the actual start in looking at naturopathic medicine actually started when my science advisor got sick. He was in Asia, out in the middle of nowhere and he got really sick. So he was actually treated by natural medicine and when he got back he brought back this green tea and black tea. He said well, I need for you to look at this and see if there's any antimicrobial properties in the green and black tea. So I did some investigation, started doing the research on it and actually found out that it did have a lot of good qualities as far as reducing the effects of different forms of bacteria, primary bacteria of the gut. I took that research to Michigan State where I did continue the research in antimicrobial resistance and put it aside. As far as what I did at FDA to start the research with green tea and black tea, I put it aside until I ran across more research I was doing but dealing with animals and looking at antimicrobial resistance in animals from the perspective of veterinary medicine. That's what I did at Michigan State and I started seeing the same thing. What are we doing here? Why are we having these bacteria that are resistant coming from animals to humans or humans to animals, that effect? So I started thinking about what I can do to kind of help. So I said, in order to make any change, I decided maybe I should go into naturopathic medicine.

Speaker 2: 3:47

So once my wife finished medical school at Michigan State, I applied for a naturopathic medical school in Arizona, which I spent some time doing. That that's how I got started into naturopathic medicine. But actuality, it started off much younger. My mother, her grandfather, was a Native American medicine man and she kind of did a lot of different things herbal things when we were kids and as a kid you didn't really appreciate it, you know. You kind of thought it was bad and it was terrible to take. But I started looking at some of the different things that she was doing. The wounds healed faster, you know, even though it tasted bad, your wounds healed faster and we were very rarely sick. And I started taking thinking about these different properties and stuff and one to start utilize them into my practice many, many years later, many years later. So that's pretty much how that started, you know, and involved with naturopathic medicine.

Speaker 1: 4:46

So, so, like, well, gut health, but I mean it's from your, since you were young and you were getting like these, like funky teas or probably these for like the wounds, and you're probably like what is this? What is this? What am I doing as a kid? But now you're realizing how effective, right.

Speaker 2: 5:02

As a kid you didn't appreciate what what she was doing, even though I think I was very observant. But I noticed that things were a little bit different, especially when we were very rarely sick. But you know, it was something I really wanted to investigate and I was kind of wondering. People always wonder how do you fit in, because your background is so conventional and naturopathic medicine is a little bit different, and I was like it was based on a need. I wanted to do something that was a little bit different and not really taking the conventional route, even though I had an opportunity to do so. It was a choice that I made. I thought I could make a bigger difference from looking at it from a naturopathic perspective, did you?

Speaker 1: 5:52

get any pushback from actually even just your family, being that your wife's conventional medicine. No, no, no.

Speaker 2: 5:58

In actuality my wife. She's an OBGYN and she has been very supportive with this venture. And she has been very supportive, you know, with this venture. As a matter of fact. Long story short with this is that when she applied for residency she knew that I wanted to go to Arizona. So she kind of tailored herself. She kind of just basically downplayed a lot of different things and basically focused her attention to Arizona so I can get that opportunity. So she's been very supportive with that. But a lot of her patients who were in Arizona were looking for alternative medicine approaches and she didn't know them and she would ask me to look into it and do some research and then provide information for her patients. Even today we work together.

Speaker 2: 6:46

She's in practice as an OB OBGYN here in Decatur and there's always a demand. Women want other, different things to handle their problems. So we consult a lot. She consults me and she takes the lead on handling her patients, lead on handling her patients. But that's how I got involved with women's health is through her. But as far as my immediate family, they were supportive. My mom was definitely pleased. Actually she became my patient. But we lost her to COVID about three years ago.

Speaker 1: 7:23

I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2: 7:38

But she was always very happy. She goes well. I guess I did something. I'm so sorry. And do blend together very well, and then there's some times that they don't, and that's what you have to. People have to understand that you have to. There's a place for everything and it's also a blending of different things for different diseases and things like that.

Speaker 1: 8:01

So, in reference because I mean you're very big on gut health and also women's health, Most of your clients now that you see are more in also women's health. Most of your clients now that you see are more in the women's health sector or in perimenopause, menopause area, or you do have a variety of patients.

Speaker 2: 8:16

There's a variety. There's a variety. I see more women than men, because most men don't get it. I think you see that a lot. If I deal with just women whether it's women's health or dealing with just different things high blood pressure, diabetes I see more women that are coming to me and I have to come up with solutions or working with their doctors to blend conventional medicine with alternative medicine or naturopathic medicine. So for most people, I see more women than men.

Speaker 1: 8:55

Okay, my question for you is because I feel like I have this argument not really argument I'm passionate about, say integrating, just because, in the sense of like, I just feel like the conversation needs instead of this like butting heads. Do you get a pretty good response from some of their primaries or their when you're saying, hey, let's do this, let's talk about or has it been negated it?

Speaker 2: 9:19

depends on who I'm dealing with. Some of the times the doctors will listen. For the most part, sometimes they don't know me, so I have to introduce myself, you know, to them or through their patients. I tell my patients you still have a primary care doctor. I'm kind of like a consultant. You know I really want to help you out, but I still have to go through your doctor.

Speaker 2: 9:48

So once I sit down with them and talk to them, some of them are a little bit open. Some of them says, well, I don't really want to do this. I'm thinking that there may be some interactions. I says, well, what we can do is while they're in a hospital you do your thing, but when they're out, maybe we collaborate and do it. So once you kind of open that field up and not being combative with them, because some people are like, well, why are you not going on with this? I can't, because your doctor's still in charge. I can't get involved with that. But once I kind of get them kind of cleared up, most of the time they're pretty open, especially if they're at a wit's end. I do a lot of research. I love looking into medical oddities and if they can't figure it out, I says, well, maybe we can get together and try to figure it out, so that usually works.

Speaker 1: 10:43

What has been something that's been different or like out of the ordinary, that you may have seen, that people might not have or that you're like oh, that comes up that most people don't so one of the things that there was a there was a patient of mine who had gone.

Speaker 2: 11:00

She's a medical doctor and she had just retired and she had gone to the beach with her family and somehow she got something stuck in her foot and she had went into this. I mean it was really bad. Her wound got infected, she, she was really really bad, her blood pressure dropped, I mean all these different things had happened to her and the doctors would run all these tests. They couldn't't find anything really major. There was an infection, but they didn't really know what it was. But the symptoms were really life-threatening and once they got it under control because we still don't know what this is she would have these flare-ups, for temperature would go up, she would have problems breathing and I was like, what is this?

Speaker 2: 11:44

So a friend of mine, who was a friend of his, he contacted me, which I contacted her. I says, well, can you help her? I'm like, well, let's see. So I went through the symptom, looked through her records, did all this other stuff. So I'm like I can't really don't know what this is. And so I started thinking about some of the symptoms I had seen in the past and one of the things I thought when made would have been would be mast cell activation. Okay, so mast cell activation.

Speaker 1: 12:14

Talk to everybody about that. Oh, okay, so mast cell. People don't know. Most people around here just have no idea about medicine and they're just Okay.

Speaker 2: 12:22

So mast cells are cells that are within is part of your immune system, and they stimulate the immune system. They're okay when they don't get overstimulated but due to infections or allergies or allergens, food sensitivities, I mean a lot of different things will stimulate them to the point where they get really, really bad. So one of the big things is a really bad histamine response. They secrete a lot of different chemicals. One of them is histamines, and that can really really take a big, big toll, you know, on a person's body and that was what I thought she may have had. And the doctor's like you better get your affairs in order. That's how bad it was, because they didn't know what it was. Oh, wow, so well, what I can do. If you really want to do this with me, why don't you just take Benadryl? She was like I got a major health problem. She wanted to give me something with Benadryl I think you have a mast cell activation and she took it and within a, within a couple days, all of her symptoms disappeared oh, the, just a benadryl.

Speaker 1: 13:30

I've okay, I've heard just benadryl, multiple different types of treatments for mast cells.

Speaker 2: 13:35

So you just said, right, one of the people basically I chose this out of active desperation because her health was really, really bad and she was just so bad. But I just felt that's what it was. All of her labs looked like mad cell but the doctors just didn't agree with it. Even though she's a physician, she was like I've heard of it. I said talk to your doctor. The doctor goes well, we're not. I've never heard of it, can you?

Speaker 1: 14:01

talk a little bit more in detail on this, because I really think there's a lot of back andand-forth research on it or back-and-forth conversations of it doesn't exist. It does exist and you talked about it. I think that, and then also what the lab in there? I mean, I think it's a little interesting. I think people should at least get a touch on it so it doesn't sound like boring, right? I think it is real and we know you and I can do that.

Speaker 2: 14:33

But I just think that the controversial begins when a lot of doctors don't believe that it exists because there's there's research in it. There's actually, you know, there's funding for it, but some doctors never heard of it so they don't get into it and a lot of it happens due to neglect, starting from the time the samples are collected. Due to neglect, starting from the time the samples are collected. Okay, when you're taking these samples from the person, the blood and the test for histamines, prostaglandins, tryptase is a big one. They don't chill it, they don't put it on ice and by the time it gets to the lab to have it analyzed, those enzymes are temperature sensitive and they're not there or they're there in small amounts.

Speaker 2: 15:13

Another thing is that they were saying that you've got to catch the. The mast cells are active. That's when you really start have to do the blood tests to really get it in this fullown force. If you start treating it, the response goes down and you're not going to get. Your lab results are not going to be as high as they should be. So that's when they're tested and chilling. It is the critical part.

Speaker 2: 15:38

Okay, okay, yeah. And that's why people don't say that it doesn't exist, because they can have all the symptoms for it and then when they test it, the levels are not as high as they should have been because they didn't catch it at its earliest point or they didn't cool it down before testing, and those are the critical points. So she had talked to her doctor which is actually who was a friend of hers, and he was like I don't understand what he did. And now you're well, you're walking around you, you were, we thought you were going to lose you. I'm like is something as simple as Benadryl? I said no, it's not as simple as Benadryl. It's looking at the symptoms, it's looking at the symptoms.

Speaker 1: 16:23

Yeah, no, but you went into the. Like I said, I've heard other treatments, so Benadryl. Benadryl is one of the I use. You know some of the H2. So can you explain to me which ones you've used and why just?

Speaker 2: 16:36

Benadryl. Well, I used Benadryl out of act of desperation. She was really really sick and that's what she had on her shelf, got it. She agreed to do it because she says I'm not sure how bad, I know this is really bad. I says well, you've gone to the doctor. They ran all these tests. We still, we still need to kind of look into it. So she agreed to do it and that's how I did it.

Speaker 2: 17:04

But normally what I normally do is I look at the symptom, naturally, and since histamine is on the high end most of the times, I usually will give there's something that's called DAO it's an enzyme and that actually degrades or breaks down the histamines High amounts of B6, since DAO is the enzyme that degrades histamines. A lot of the times people are B6 deficient and I usually give the active form of B6, which is P5P, which is the active form. And you really should give the active form of B6, which is P5P, which is the active form, and you really should give the active form because it's biologically active. It doesn't have to be activated because regular B6 has to be activated. You don't want to really wait around on that. Oh, there's another one that actually works. Well, I found out that resveratrol works very well. I found that out by accident.

Speaker 2: 18:05

I work with sickle cell patients and a lot of the times with sickle cell they have a lot of time not all of them, but a lot of their crises are stimulated by mast cell activation, are stimulated by mast cell activation. Trying to get doctors to look into that, because they keep having this pain, this crisis and stuff that come along with it. A lot of the time their tryptase levels are really really high and the tryptase stimulates pain, which is really painful. It also triggers a lot of other biological process that can mimic mast cell activation. Oh, it's breakdown of bone, breaking down of bone, and pain as well as inflammation that goes along with that. So those are different things that I look at.

Speaker 2: 18:57

All this quercetin can actually drop. That works very, very well at dropping those mast cells activation, the symptoms, as well as calming the mast cells down. The problem is, once you get sensitized or they're oversensitive, it doesn't take much to bring this thing back. So that's why you have to kind of remove the allergens. If you know the sources, whether it's food or environmental, being exposed to infections, you know a lot of different infections. So basically it's the part of your immune system that gets overstimulated. That's pretty much what it is.

Speaker 1: 19:42

No, I mean, I think it's really interesting because I think I mean I, you know, I definitely read about it and worked with a little bit with it, but I think you had to do Benadryl as a quick fix because it was like, okay, but remember, you still had to, you still had to work about the underlying Right.

Speaker 2: 19:52

The mast cells secrete. You know, like there's those four that I mentioned but there's a lot more, but the histamines are on a high end. So you want to kind of look at that as a way to kind of controlling the histamines. You know their response. As far as what the person's actually dealing with, they do have a lot of allergy response due to the histamines, but it's also the tryptase which is basically the pain. There's also substance P. I'm not sure if you've heard of that Substance P. The P stands for pain. So these mast cells secrete these chemicals that actually induce pain. So there's a lot of things that control the pain For pain, the histamine response, which is the allergy response, breaking down of bone, and that's usually long-term.

Speaker 1: 20:48

I think you have a lot of chronically ill patients. Correct, correct, correct. Yeah, but you've been managing them pretty well.

Speaker 2: 20:57

Yeah, so they're masking them and the problems get worse because they're not really addressing them. What I started looking at for sickle cell patients is a lot of them start breaking down bone. They'll start losing bone. It's not about the nutrients that are being blocked due to the sickling effect of the cells. It's also due to a lot of times the mast cells are being activated and that's never addressed. They're looking at sickle cell itself but not looking at the complications that could happen thereafter. So that's when I looked at resveratrol. It doesn't work for everybody, but when you're having a lot of pain, you're looking at a lot of different things for them to help stop it and trying to reduce the pain medications, like opioids, that they give them. Next thing you know you keep doing it. Next thing you know they're addicted. There's studies that show that resveratrol dampens the pain and reduces the effects of being on that pain medication, so it reduces the effect of you being hooked on opioids. Oh, that's excellent. I've been trying to. I've been trying to. I've written several articles to Sickle Cell Magazine.

Speaker 1: 22:15

I, you know, I'm trying to let people know. Yeah, they're not always willing to listen, right?

Speaker 2: 22:20

They don't want to listen or they're listening but they're not responding back to me. So the patients that I do have, I want to, you know, put them on it, you know. But like I try to cover a lot of different areas in my practice with the patients that I do see, that's really.

Speaker 1: 22:38

I mean the, I mean sickle cell, just in general, is a pretty extensive area. What would you like to discuss, either client-wise, patient-wise or something before you know you have some more time. If you have another you know antidote that you'd like to give us for the night or the day.

Speaker 2: 22:53

Well, there's a couple. Well, other than the sickle cell, excuse me, other than the sickle cell issue and the one with the histamine issue, there was another one looking at ulcerative colitis. I did what I did with a lot of GI issues, people who have ulcerative colitis. It's naturally a really, really bad case of inflammation that predominantly, you know, in the colon, and I tell people inflammation spreads. That predominantly, you know, in the colon, and I tell people inflammation spreads, it doesn't just stay in one spot and they're more prone to it going from the colon and going up into the small intestines.

Speaker 2: 23:30

So there was a case that I had worked on where the person was basically a doctor and this person had could not really do their job because of the, the diarrhea that they were having all the time and once it starts you can't control it and it, you know, it's really really bad. So they've been putting him on, did a colonoscopy, they found it. That is really really severe. They put, put the person on a lot of different biologics, biological drugs that control the immune system, to dampen the immune system so the body can heal. That didn't work.

Speaker 2: 24:11

So the patient came to me and says look, I haven't been on vacation in years. I'm a surgeon, I can't afford to be having accidents on myself. You know it's like, okay, you're still taking the medications. Well, yeah, I says well, we can talk to your doctor about lowering the medications and I'll be working with you to control the inflammation as well as the healing process. So what I did was start looking at different things that can help with the inflammation, but one of the things that I worked with that I think that really was very, very beneficial was two things. One was collagen. Collagen is the support mechanism that all your body needs, it for support. You need collagen to support your teeth, your muscles, your tendons, everything.

Speaker 1: 25:08

I have like three cups of it.

Speaker 2: 25:10

So you have to have a collagen, because now that you have these open wounds, these wounds are basically bleeding. That's pretty much what it is. So that was one thing, one thing that I thought was the deal breaker Do you do collagen and omega-3 or just collagen? It's just collagen, and I do some other different things for help with inflammation. But one of the things that I thought well, I know that was very, very beneficial was something was called butyrate oh for the stomach. Called butyrate, oh for the stomach Well, for the stomach, but actually for the GI tract.

Speaker 1: 25:43

Okay, so here it is in a nutshell. Talk to them about it, tell them a little bit about that, because I know you said some of my GI stuff, but discuss.

Speaker 2: 25:51

Yeah, so butyrate is a small chain fatty acid. Okay, that actually comes from the fermentation process of fiber. Okay, and that's why it's important to have fiber in your diet, because the bacteria in your gut take the fiber and break it down into butyrate. Okay, so if if a person's gut is working normally, they're going to be usually probably sold in a butyrate reduced because the body's trying to utilize this butyrate to help heal that, that, that ulcer colitis. So butyrate what it does it. This is how the beauty of it all it controls the immune system. It modulates the immune system, so it controls it. It also what else does it do? It lowers the inflammation. It's very, very good for lowering inflammation so the body can start healing, and it actually works a lot better with the biologic. It actually complements it.

Speaker 2: 26:59

This is where I got. This is where I, yeah, I figured I said there must be a connection. So that's when I started kind of falling out, falling, you know, doing this different, developing a protocol for it. It took about maybe five months in order to, because it was really really bad, and I asked the doctor before we started to be tested for parasites and the doctor kind of looked at me like, well why. I says well, it could be a paralytic infection and says maybe we could do probiotics. Doctor was like, no, we're not doing that. I was like but you know about, you're a gastroenterologist. He goes we're not doing that. I says okay. I says well, let's do three months of this treatment that you're planning. If that doesn't work, maybe we could mix it with what I'm doing and blend it. So once she didn't heal, the doctor was saying can we do this? I really want to do it. So it was an agreement that we had together and she actually is done. Put her ulcer colitis in remission, spent my three years.

Speaker 1: 28:02

I love it. So the question for you test-wise what did you do for your GI test-wise? Did you use a specific testing or did you just know from symptoms?

Speaker 2: 28:11

I did not, I did not do any testing. I was looking for the results because her GI tract was really was so messed up and when I got the imaging back not the imaging, imaging, well, it's just the pictures that the, that the g-gastronomies took I mean it was really really really badly inflamed and naturally she's anemic. There was a lot of different things we had to to kind of look at. So I didn't think maybe doing that I mean, sometimes I do look for that or ask for it, but this particular case I didn't. I didn't do it.

Speaker 2: 28:51

Then I slowly started to add the probiotics in once the diarrhea had decreased, because she was having like 10 to 15 bouts of diarrhea every day and just not knowing when it was going to happen. So she had to cut out her surgery schedule and she had to reduce a lot of stuff. So it took a while to do this, but it's very doable. It's very doable. So it's the research behind it. That's what I like. I didn't just come up with this. Well, I kind of did, but I used the existing research and find out what they were doing and finding out what can be done to blend with with conventional medicine along with, you know, other alternative approaches. Even after I presented her doctor with this information, they still didn't buy it.

Speaker 1: 29:45

They didn't right. They still don't understand.

Speaker 2: 29:47

They still didn't understand it. They didn't. They just well, that's a fluke. It's like well, it's not a fluke, because she was on this medication that you were providing and was not getting any better. It was getting worse until we blended this together and it worked. It was. It took a while, but it was very much very much.

Speaker 1: 30:10

I can definitely attest to tell you that things that I either tried on like clients myself, family members in some manner of you know, gut, gut rebalancing they do work, but it could take three to six. I won't say that I'm an expert like in the sense of I have seen autoimmune remission. Responses Granted, I know that some of it there's just maybe not enough studies, but that's why I love having people on like yourself, because it's like, hey, let's have the conversation, don't be afraid of like, let's try something, because if these are not working, not working there's obviously there's Well, there's also something else that I did that I didn't mention.

Speaker 2: 30:47

I should have mentioned it. It's really important is vitamin D. Vitamin D is underestimated. I know there are people now testing for it because people's vitamin D levels are low. But vitamin D does a lot more than just bones and teeth. That's what it's touted for, but it does a lot more, and one of the things that it does do that I thought was very beneficial was tightening the gut junction, so if the person has which I'm pretty sure the person had leaky gut because of severe inflammation, and also modulating the immune system and modulating the well, not only the immune system, but modulating how the body responds in the healing process. So I did that at high doses.

Speaker 2: 31:35

Now the thing is, what I did was with that, since she already had a gut issue and I was concerned about her losing, because her having so much diarrhea all the time and when she's having that, any fluid loss especially, you know, dealing coming coming from the colon you have a pretty good chance of becoming a fat soluble deficiency. So A, b, e and K were probably out the window because she was not absorbing it or she was losing it in the diarrhea. So what I did was for that time, for a short period of time until the gut started to heal I started having her use an oral or under the tongue sublingual vitamin D or a liquid vitamin D. Or there's something I really like is the vitamin D or multivitamin patch. That's really effective. Any person with a GI issue or a gut issue should be on either a sublingual Sometimes you can't get a sublingual to cover the whole multi thing but there are vitamin patches, patch aid and patch MD.

Speaker 2: 32:46

Those are the two that I've used that have been very effective. I like them. I have nothing to do with them, I am not affiliated with them, but they do produce a very good product and I I I did use that because I know that she could not hold any of the nutrients down based on her on her medical condition. That's really so. I still check in on her. She's still back. She's back to work, taking vacation with her family. Hasn't had any episodes or anything like that. So it works I love it, I think.

Speaker 1: 33:17

I think, I mean, and do you also have a nutritional component, that you talk to them about it? Or are they already there? Isn't there, definitely? Or do they? Or do they know that by this point? When?

Speaker 2: 33:26

no, no, well once as we started. Well, one thing is, when they start having all these bouts of diarrhea, trying to find different ways to stop diarrhea is very critical. So I'm not really, you know, I'm really big on it on the nutrition point, but I'm really just trying to get their GI tract under control before I try anything. But one of the things that I do want to tell them to do is that putting them on a digestive enzyme and they're like, wow, oh, I have to track this. Yeah, I track this, it's fine. I said, no, it's fine, but we have to find a way to break down your food more effectively so your body can absorb it and you can get the nutrients that you want.

Speaker 2: 34:10

Matter of fact, the there are some studies that are out there that saying that putting a digestive enzyme can actually help with stopping diarrhea, you know, or preventing constipation. It's kind of a double-edged sword. It works ways because if you're losing things, maybe you can break it down small enough pieces that is absorbed into the system, as opposed to just losing it, losing it all, and it works very well. But to stop the diarrhea or controlling it, you know, it's looking at soluble fiber. Soluble fiber, not insoluble. Insoluble yeah, it may bulk your stools up, but also the inside of it may bulk it up and then it starts irritating the gut again. So you want soluble fiber to something that's broken down so it actually copes and lines the GI tract and does the job that it needs to, and does the job that it needs to, as well as giving their your gut bacteria so they can make sodium butyrate Right, so you can make your own right.

Speaker 2: 35:19

It's a nice. It's a nice process. It's just bad to see someone going through that. But the end result after working with them for months and actually they're frustrated because it's not working, it's not working. I have them count the number of bowel movements that they have in a day so some people are visual, so they can see the numbers and going from 20 down to maybe, you know, having 10. And then you know it drops down and now they say, oh, it's working, because I'm not having as many bowel movements as diarrhea as I did before. I said, yeah, that's true, the biologists are not going to do that for you, they're just controlling your immune system but at the same time you're not actually using your own body to heal itself.

Speaker 1: 36:09

No, it's dampening it Right. It's almost like chemo chemotherapy.

Speaker 2: 36:13

Yeah, I know it's totally different, but it's the same process. You're limiting your body's healing process. So that's how I decided. If I'm going to work with this doctor and not taking everything away from her, you can use the biologist, but I'm I'm I'm working with your body to modulate. That's why the vitamin D was so important to modulate the immune system. Anything I can do to help people, you know, because most people don't want to talk about their, their GI problems, you know, they don't want to talk about it until it gets really, really bad.

Speaker 1: 36:52

I imagine you know it's a, it's a lot, it's a lot of convo and they're desperate. They want some success.

Speaker 2: 36:56

Right A lot of times taking out some different things that may irritate their gut. Any small part like peanuts, popcorn, granola, anything that's kind of grainy or stuff that could get caught in the foe, that creates a whole new, different thing, you know. But we don't want anything irritating that the gut lining, especially as it's already inflamed and it's really really messy. You want to just give things that are going to be very calming, you know, to the body.

Speaker 1: 37:29

I think you're a wealth of knowledge. There's so much more we could talk about. Is there a fun note that we haven't found out about you, that you haven't?

Speaker 2: 37:38

Oh, yeah, there is a. There is a fun note. I'm not gonna make this long, I'll make it kind of short. But you know, about five years ago I get a, I get a message from a genealogist and she was like, oh, she's messaging me, which is through social media, which I don't know, this lady.

Speaker 2: 37:59

She goes I'm a genealogist and I'm just doing a family search and you might be related to Megan Markle. I'm like, really, get out of here, I'm not doing this. So I said she goes here's my number, you need to call me. I was like I am not calling you. So I started thinking about it. I said, well, maybe there could be something. So I said is there another number that I could use to call you? So I called her back and she starts telling me all this stuff about my family and stuff and friends of the family that my father knew and stuff like that. I said, okay, so you must be some truth.

Speaker 2: 38:36

She goes yeah, I'm a genealogist and they're doing a family history of Meghan Markle. This is before she became the prince or duchess, you know, way before they were just trying to get information. So he goes you could be related to her. I was like, why are you even doing all this stuff? So she started rattling off my father's background this is where it's coming from my father's background and where they grew up and there's a lot of families most of the family Dabney's had kind of settled in, so that's where Megan's mother's grandmother had settled in.

Speaker 2: 39:11

So basically I can't remember the history. We were like third cousins twice we moved or something like that. So it's basically my great-grandfather and grandmother and whatever you know, had a child which eventually, you know, turned into family and stuff like that. That's neat, yeah. So I'm related. So we reached out to her once we found out. We never got a response. You know family reunions we reach out to them and they never respond back. So I don't know, we're related genetically. That you know. The family tree kind of proves that. But that's the interesting fact is just how it happened. We got a lot of publicity, you got a lot of interviews from the newspaper and radio and oh, wow, like that.

Speaker 1: 39:55

So that's, that's interesting yeah, the gene, the gene pool and ancestries and the those uh genetic things like I feel like surprises come up all the time, different things.

Speaker 2: 40:04

Well, this well, see, we didn't do the genetic testing portion, it was only done. It was only done by the family tree. And there's I mean definitely there's a when the genealogists started looking. Megan's mother or grandmother actually did live there, matter of fact, that's where they met my side of the family. So that's how we came into being with that, not knowing what was going to happen. But it was interesting, it was a nice thing to ride, it was very. People were always doing interviews and stuff like that, especially when they got married. But interestingly enough, she does look a little bit like my sister. So there is something that's there. But as far as anything else goes, I can't think of anything else goes. I don't know, I can't think of anything. I can't think of anything else that that's kind of fun though.

Speaker 2: 40:54

Other than other than work related, you know or not. Oh, I another interesting fact I started things late in life, Went to, went to medical school at 40., Joined the Army at 40. Wow, I didn't know you were going to tell me Okay, that was, I was. Somehow I went to the military. The Army was not my first choice.

Speaker 1: 41:18

I was thinking that I didn't think you could go in that early.

Speaker 2: 41:22

That was because of the. There was a need. A lot of times we're going to the medical side or any other side, you find there's a need to make preparations for you, as long as you meet the qualifications. So the long story short was my wife was applying for the Army Reserve, you know the National Guard, and I would just drove her up there, you know.

Speaker 2: 41:45

And I was just sitting in the office and the surgeon general comes out and he was like what do you want? I'm like, well, I don't want anything, I'm just waiting for my wife, which he went with the interview. He just left the interview and was sitting down there talking to me. So he started getting some information on my background and I says, well, I worked for FDA, did CDC, did this, this, this. And he was like, oh, and he starts hey guys, look at this, look who I found. What are you talking about? So all this officer starts coming out like I'm some oddity. He's like well, what you told me? You couldn't find anybody. Well, he's sitting here in the office. What guys, what are you talking about? Because we're looking for somebody with your background and we can't find anybody. I was like look man, you're looking at the wrong person. I'm not doing anything.

Speaker 2: 42:30

I gave that up a long time ago. I'm old, I'm wearing glasses, you know. He was like well, I can waive that. I'm like who are you? I'm a Surgeon General. I'm like okay, so anyway. So I applied and eventually got in, but I was really brought on board because of the biological toxins. I used to work with a lot of biological toxins at FDA a lot for many years and did a lot of work with botulism a lot of different biological toxins, primarily from the GI tract. I was involved with the GI tract. Wow, how fascinating.

Speaker 2: 43:06

So, I was. They don't call it. They don't call, they call it civil support now. But at that time was it was the weapons of mass destruction unit you don't hear people call it that much, but I was in charge of the biological portion of that. I was sworn in 15 days after 9-11. That's because it would have been earlier. But they lost my paperwork, any dollars, other stuff. I wouldn't have been. And people were not happy and they were like, why do you want to do this? You know something can happen to you. Like it doesn't really matter, because I was going to do this anyway. If my paperwork hadn't gotten lost, 9-11 would have happened anyway and I would have been. I was still, would have been involved. So I got a lot of pushback.

Speaker 1: 43:47

We were in at the same time. We were in at the same time. Oh, oh, you were, I was in the navy.

Speaker 2: 43:56

Oh, you were the navy and that was what I wanted. That was my first choice was the navy, yeah we were in at the same time.

Speaker 1: 44:02

I was in for six and then a couple reserves, but yeah, I was in until 2008, but 2006.

Speaker 2: 44:07

Okay so, I really admired you. I was actually involved with the Navy. I was an ROTC when I was in college and got a scholarship. Then they revoked the scholarship because I had flat feet. That was a no-no and I always had an interest in the Navy. My brother, owen's brother, was in the Navy. He was a lieutenant commander of the Navy when he retired. So I had an interest in the Navy. My brother, oldest brother, was in the Navy. He was a lieutenant commander of the Navy when he retired. So I had an interest in the Navy. And my father was in the Air Force for 30 years, flight engineer, but it was not my. It was not my place, I guess because I every time I applied, it was always a war to broke out a conflict. It's like well, paul, apparently that's not a good sign for you. So what did you do in the Navy?

Speaker 1: 44:47

Oh, I'm actually was an ET and then I got medically trained and then I became a nurse.

Speaker 2: 44:52

So yeah, I that was my first choice. That was my first. It wanted to be my first involvement. But you know, nothing wrong with the army, I'm not degrading the army, it's just that that was my first first choice, but first choice. But at 40 years old, going to basic training, all these you know that's pretty big.

Speaker 1: 45:10

That's pretty big but awesome. That's what I think.

Speaker 2: 45:12

I tell people you do what, you do what you need to do, and you don't matter. You know there's, despite the time, restraint, you know that is, go ahead and try it, yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:22

So yeah, you on I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 45:26

I really enjoyed this. It's been a lot of fun. I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1: 45:29

So I love for those to reach out to you. So what website can they reach you out? And then I'll put the rest of your information on the show notes.

Speaker 2: 45:41

It's wwwcnhoworg. That's my business webpage.

Speaker 1: 45:46

Okay, perfect, and I'll put that on the show notes and I appreciate you coming out. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 45:53

This was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. I just wanted to reach out to people, anybody that has any type of medical or health issues, especially the oddities. I really like doing the research on that.

Speaker 1: 46:05

And they can connect with you nationally, correct? Excuse me, Can they see you nationally? Can they find you and see you and connect with you online?

Speaker 2: 46:12

Oh yeah yeah, yeah, I do, you know the telemedicine. I also see people you know internationally as well as domestically. I have a lot of following you know on an international basis Amazing. So I like to spread myself thin, watch out, watch out.

Speaker 1: 46:31

I always cut my yeses, even for myself. I've cut myself to like make sure I'm not always spreading too thin because you want to make sure, I know, I know you love what you sound like.

Speaker 1: 46:43

You love what you do no, it's just, you know what it is. We care, we like our people, we love our people. But I think you know we have to make sure we, we make sure that we can do the best. Make time for yourself, yeah, yeah. So let's chat again. We'll get back and have you on the show again. So I thank you again for your time. Thank you very much, man. Thanks for having me All right. Bye, bye-bye. Thanks guys for coming in and coming in on the show.